Evidence of meeting #60 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was haiti.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
In terms of policing, there's lots being done to train new police officers and police services. Can you tell me a bit about the role of women in that? Has that been a focus? If so, what is the focus? In other words, are women being trained as police service officers?
11:50 a.m.
Canada's Ambassador to Haiti, As an Individual
The president's personal objective is to have 50%.
11:50 a.m.
UN Special Representative of the Secretary General for the UN Stabilization Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH), United Nations
Yes, 50%.
11:50 a.m.
UN Special Representative of the Secretary General for the UN Stabilization Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH), United Nations
It's now 14%.
11:50 a.m.
Canada's Ambassador to Haiti, As an Individual
Canada is really involved in trying to increase services for women in all sectors. For example, we just had a mission to Haiti's parliament a few months ago to encourage women to involve themselves in political life. We do the same thing at the local level to try to organize women. Also, in the police, as you know, we now have 70 Canadian police officers, and they are involved in recruitment. And we try to encourage women.
The increase is quite impressive. At the first promotion you had only two women. Now it's up to 14%, and we are quite confident that it will increase in the coming months.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Elections Canada has played a role in the past in the elections there. Are we doing that in the upcoming elections?
11:50 a.m.
Canada's Ambassador to Haiti, As an Individual
I think the CEP has gained a lot of its own capacities. In these last municipal elections, they were the ones who really conducted the whole thing on their own, so they've learned from all of the advisory services, especially from Canada in the past. So they have those capacities now.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
So is Canada providing resources for the upcoming senate elections?
11:50 a.m.
UN Special Representative of the Secretary General for the UN Stabilization Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH), United Nations
We are, but we are waiting for the electoral committee to design the critical path. At the moment, we don't have any timeframe or anything like that, but, yes, we will.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
I actually have one other quick question I just have to ask. It's a touchy one, and it's about the role of Aristide. We're honest brokers, which is what we hope to be seen as. I'm still not clear about what exactly happened with the overthrow of Aristide after he was elected.
What is his presence in the culture of Haiti today, and how is Canada seen or connected to the former president, in terms of how people perceive that?
11:50 a.m.
Canada's Ambassador to Haiti, As an Individual
I can answer the first part of the question and you can answer the second part of the question.
11:50 a.m.
UN Special Representative of the Secretary General for the UN Stabilization Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH), United Nations
This is Préval's second term as president. He was president for five years with Aristide's support.
11:50 a.m.
UN Special Representative of the Secretary General for the UN Stabilization Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH), United Nations
He was also Aristide's prime minister for five years, and he ran under a new banner, this new movement called Lavalas, and Lespwa, but most of his base was in Lavalas. He has this national unity government, and one of the ministers represents the Lavalas Party, the minister of planning.
In the very beginning, when Préval came to power, you would see these marches and manifestations calling for Aristide to come back. There would be 5,000 people marching on the street. A few months later it was 3,000 people, and then in December it was 500. It went out with probably only 20 people marching, asking for or demanding Aristide's return. His own movement, Lavalas, is very fractious, with a lot of different groups with no leader conducting it in Haiti. So I think Aristide's political presence in Haiti is very, very much diminished at this point.
11:55 a.m.
Canada's Ambassador to Haiti, As an Individual
I have just a few comments.
11:55 a.m.
Canada's Ambassador to Haiti, As an Individual
We consider Aristide a man of the past today. We think Haiti needs reconciliation. When you see all of the messages sent by Aristide from South Africa, which he does at least on a yearly basis—and he just sent one in December or January—they are not the kinds of messages that will encourage reconciliation. He tried to oppose portions of the Haitian society, so in this context, I don't think his return would help to stabilize the country. Maybe at some point he should return to his country, but one thing is sure: it would be premature today. It would put in jeopardy all of the international community's efforts to stabilize the country and to encourage reconciliation. We will need more stability, and more political stability, and maybe sometime in the future—
But as Mr. Mulet said, what we witness in the country now—contrary to some of the reports we sometimes see in the press or on TV—is that he doesn't have a lot of support. In fact, the last demonstration of his supporters was announced to be made up of thousands and thousands of people, and there were less than 500 people.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Mr. Ambassador, and also Mr. Dewar.
We will move to a second round, and we have Madame Barbot.
May 31st, 2007 / 11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being with us, gentlemen. It is a pleasure to see you again. I really appreciate what you are doing for Haiti, the more so because I come from the country myself, specifically from Artibonite, the region where all the revolutions are born. But in spite of the fact that I come from Haiti, I have not been closely involved for some time, having been forced to leave the country when I was quite young.
Francine, you are probably more familiar with the current concerns in Haiti.
But, of course, one never stops being Haitian. When I take part in discussions on Haiti as part of my work as a member of Parliament, it is always with emotion and a great deal of interest.
With all that has been said, two aspects that you briefly touched on seem almost absent from the current situation. At least, that is how it seems to me, looking in from the outside. To an extent, this is about national reconciliation. Mr. Boucher alluded to it briefly. As far as I can see, no efforts are being made in this direction. I am well aware that everything has to be done, but the fact remains that the everything includes the Haitian people. As you know, there is enormous economic disparity, there is dissension and even hatred among different factions. Considering everything that we are doing in Haiti, I am a little surprised to see that this aspect is not being considered.
I could parody Mr. Bush—I think it would be for the first time—who spoke about winning hearts and minds. I would rather say reconciling hearts and minds. In my opinion, this idea does not figure largely enough in what is being done for Haiti and with Haitians. Of course, none of these efforts will be successful unless the people themselves decide to get involved. At the moment, the people are a little alienated—and here I am not talking about those who are forming the government—by the fact that white people are acting on their behalf, and that the government is their puppet. It is as if Haitians do not see, individually and collectively, why they need to become involved. In that context, I think that a kind of national reconciliation could result, in terms of concrete action, in people taking ownership rather taking handouts.
Unfortunately, Haitians have become beggars through the years. That is what happens when you cannot take care of yourself. It is particularly so from a macroeconomic point of view. On a personal level, it results in individuals who are suffering and who keep waiting for foreign aid, at all levels.
Then there is the elimination of the debt. In the Haitian mind, that debt is enormously important. People talk a lot about the current debt, and I remember that, at the World March of Women, women said that they had never signed anything and were not responsible for any debt at all. That is the extent to which they do not feel part of it.
People forget Haitian history, the fact that the country paid for its independence in gold. This has a direct effect on the present situation. We paid the debt when things were going relatively well, but it had enormous consequences, including in the minds of the people. Haitians are very proud of having paid the debt, but I find it stupid. Here in 2007, I feel that we never should have paid. But we did.
As for the debt that has accumulated since, I think that foreign countries are partly responsible. They should be capable of very quickly establishing something that would allow Haiti to come to terms with those two elements. We paid the debt, and it caused us an immense problem. If you know the kind of aid to provide to foreign countries, especially to a country that is still in sharp decline, would you not think that eliminating the debt could act on hearts and minds, and facilitate that reconciliation?