Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 20th, 2007

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

We've seen this in the past, it is aggressive life support. With all due respect, Mr. Chairman, I think that most of the people and most colleagues have said what they have to say.

Contrary to what my colleagues on the government side say, I believe that the addition of the words “preliminary report” is important. We agree on the fact that there is a very important issue, and it is definitely Afghanistan. I am new on the committee, and I am determined to analyze everything that has been said on the subject in the past. If we review the situation by December 14, we will demonstrate that we are on top of current events. Again, I would point out that we are talking about a preliminary report.

Given these factors, I think we should put the question, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Merci.

I did have two others on with Mr. Martin.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

No, that's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Obhrai, you were on as well.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I just want to reiterate that we believe this report would not be an actual reflection of proper work done by the committee. I do understand that we all worked hard, but it's difficult for the government to support this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Obhrai.

We'll now have the question on the motion by Mr. Dewar, as amended by Madame Barbot and Mr. Wilfert..

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Could you read the motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I will read the motion. Except for the preliminary report, it is printed in the handout.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

So you're going by what Madam Barbot has?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Except for the second amendment, which includes that the committee table a preliminary report to the House of Commons by December 14, 2007.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

But that this study continue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Well, yes, it's preliminary.

[Gerald Schmitz]

You can put it in the preliminary report of the study.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

I just want to make sure that this is going to continue into February, that's all, and that this study--

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

This study is ongoing.

(Motion as amended agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We will now proceed to the second motion that has been received. This motion is from Mr. Dewar and reads:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, as part of its ongoing concern for the crisis in Darfur and consideration of issues of corporate social responsibility, invite senior officials from DFAIT, CIDA, and other relevant departments, as well as the All-Party Parliamentary Group for the Prevention of Genocide, to appear before the committee to share knowledge about what Canadian public and private funds are currently invested in Sudan, and explore legislative initiatives the Canadian government could put forward to set regulations for such investments, and report to the House on its findings.

Mr. Dewar, would you like to speak to your motion, please?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Yes, I would, Chair, and I won't take long.

This is actually a bring-forward from the previous committee's business and work.

Chair, I think it's well known that the humanitarian crisis in Darfur has been called by many a genocide in slow motion. We need to be able to look at different ways to positively affect and change what's going on in Darfur. This is simply a way we can look at it.

Many have suggested that the investment, the money and the profits that are being made in Sudan, in general is feeding proxy parties like the Janjaweed. In other words, the profits that are made by the Government of Sudan are being channelled to those who are taking part in this humanitarian crisis.

My point is simply that this is a way that has been suggested not just by civil society and others, but was put on the agenda of the foreign affairs committee last time we met. And we were hoping to actually have met during the summer, if possible. This is the next opportunity to look at it.

Finally, Mr. Chair, I would simply give to you the fact that looking at divestment has been done in other jurisdictions. In fact, we now have institutions within Canada and we have the State of California that have done this. I think it's cogent, it's relevant, and I hope for the support of the committee on this.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Dewar.

Madame Barbot.

[The Clerk]

No, that was from the last time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Obhrai, and then Mr. Martin.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We do understand the concern the member has put forward, and we do recognize the severity of the situation taking place in Darfur. Canada is the fourth-largest contributor of humanitarian aid to that region. We are right at the forefront of the Darfur issue.

I just came back from the United Nations, where, under the auspices of the Secretary General, we talked of the current situation in Darfur and the UN hybrid force that is now recommended. Canada is very strongly at the table. We were down in Tripoli at the peace conference. Unfortunately, certain of the rebels did not show up, so the push is still going on, but at this time the major issue still remains for the hybrid force to go into Darfur, which Canada very fully supports.

Having said that, the difficulty we are having with this motion is that the Department of Foreign Affairs and CIDA have nothing to do with investment or divestment. This is something that is with the Department of Finance or the Treasury Board.

Therefore, I would recommend to my honourable colleague that he get his other colleagues in the finance committee or any other committee to bring the relevant officials. The Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade has nothing to do with this issue of divestment. Maybe you would want to try the finance committee to carry on with this motion. You could get the officials from the finance department or officials from Treasury Board to come and answer those questions you have just asked in this motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

So you're saying here that the questions that are posed in the motion are not those to be answered by the departments that this committee--

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

That's right. The Department of Foreign Affairs and CIDA are unable to talk about the investment and all these things. This falls under the jurisdiction of the Department of Finance or Treasury Board, and it would be appropriate to discuss this issue in those committees.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. Thank you, Mr. Obhrai.

We'll go to Mr. Martin.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

I understand Mr. Dewar's initiative, and I think it's good. I think it does belong here, because we've got the Special Economic Measures Act that DFAIT and CIDA both have responsibilities for with finance, as Mr. Obhrai said, but I think it should be expanded to involve Sudan, because the comprehensive peace agreement is collapsing. What's going to happen in the south is going to make Darfur look like a little backyard brawl, and the situation is becoming worse very quickly. So the crisis is going to expand and become much worse than what we've seen. So what I could recommend, as a friendly amendment to Mr. Dewar, is that we change the word “Darfur” to “Sudan”, and then after the words “committee to share knowledge”.... I'll word it in a friendly amendment: “...pursuant to Standing Order...as part of its ongoing concern for the crisis in Darfur--”