Evidence of meeting #30 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consular.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Are you still in touch with the high commission in that country?
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Were you given any hope following the letter that was given to you? Is there any follow-up?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much, Ms. Deschamps.
Conclude very quickly, Ms. Durocher.
As an Individual
They respond to my calls and I'm told that nothing can be done since Nathalie is in Saudi Arabia and that country, which is sovereign, makes all the decisions.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As has been stated already, the government has initiated an inquiry into the circumstances of Ms. Mohamud, and so we'll await that report coming out. I cannot say anything more than that.
What I want to say is this: I'm from the same region as you are, east Africa, and I did grow up there—in Nairobi as well. So I'm well aware of the challenges in that part of the region that we all face when we go there.
I had a meeting with the Somali community last Friday, a round table conference, and many of the issues coming out here about what Somalis face in Kenya, and all of these things, were brought to my attention. We had some very frank discussions about these issues and how to address them. I can assure you that I have taken note of these very serious concerns and am working to ensure they are brought forward.
What I do want to say—and then I'll hand it over to my colleague Peter Goldring—is that I, like you, am highly concerned that there should never, never be two classes of citizens in Canada. A Canadian is a Canadian; you should be treated with full and due respect. If there are two tiers or classes of Canadians, it is absolutely unacceptable today. My government is very strong and I am very strong, coming from a visible minority background, that there should never be a two-tier system.
So we will get to the bottom of this issue. This is what I assured the Somali community, and it's what I just wanted to say to you. Thank you very much.
I'll hand it over to my colleague Peter Goldring.
Conservative
Peter Goldring Conservative Edmonton East, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
I wish to thank you very much for appearing here today and relating your story to us. Even with 50 million Canadians travelling internationally in the past year, it's still not good enough. We certainly want to get to the bottom of this issue.
I understand we can't talk about specifics of the issue. That will be handled by the investigation. Certainly we are all interested in having a very open and transparent process here as much as we possibly can. As I said, it's just not acceptable; it certainly must be investigated. It must be looked into.
I understand the ministers are doing that. Ministers Van Loan and Cannon have requested that a full accounting be prepared by the officials in regard to your case. I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to that full accounting and full reporting.
There are, however, the difficulties that have to be addressed first, too. One of the most important issues is that it still comes under the Privacy Act, which protects your privacy. It's for your benefit.
So my question would be, when this report comes forward, are you going to be prepared immediately to waive the Privacy Act in order for the report to come through?
Falconer Charney LLP, As an Individual
Mr. Goldring, I'm a little bit concerned. You're asking if she's seeking to assert privacy over something she hasn't seen. Is that the general idea?
Conservative
Peter Goldring Conservative Edmonton East, AB
That's the question, because the issue here is that this is one of the concerns when the report does come forward.
Falconer Charney LLP, As an Individual
Fair enough. I can indicate to you that Ms. Mohamud has absolutely nothing to hide, but in exchange for her agreeing to give everything about herself, she expects a full accounting on all the records that so far haven't been produced. So as long as everybody is clean and everybody produces all the papers, she'll do that, but to ask her before she gets a shred of paper whether she's prepared to consent to give all that paper is simply unfair.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Mr. Falconer, I would remind you that you're sitting here as counsel to the witness.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Your interventions are to be to Ms. Mohamud. We invited her to come and testify. So that is your responsibility.
Conservative
Conservative
Peter Goldring Conservative Edmonton East, AB
Perhaps I'll rephrase that. I'm simply drawing attention to the fact that this is another process that will have to be addressed and will have to be approached. We, on our own, or the department or whoever, when the report is released, will still not have the authorization to release that report without participation from Ms. Mohamud in the way of a privacy release. That's part of the rules and part of what the process must entail, too, for that report to have a full and complete airing. It has to have full and complete releases by all parties concerned.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Mr. Goldring.
We'll move to Mr. Dewar for the second round.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
And thank you to our witnesses for their testimony.
I too would be of the point of view that all of us, as members of Parliament here to represent citizens, wherever they come from in the country and wherever they are in the world, want to offer our apologies in terms of what happened to you. It should never have happened. Ms. Mohamud, I say very sincerely to you that we did fail.
Let's just put it aside for a second. What often happens here is that people will try to put forward their arguments and people will try to position themselves, and it's a game at times that just shouldn't be played. And when it's something as serious as citizenship--and I say this without prejudice to anyone around this table--it should be clear that these things shouldn't happen. So my sincere apology on behalf of myself and my colleagues, and I would hope others will join at the appropriate time.
But to get to the issues, I think your testimony--and I'm sure I share this with everyone here--shakes us to the soul about what can happen to someone. But you also said in your comments that you hope this doesn't happen to another Canadian and that's why you chose to do the brave thing you did today and present your story. But I could have in this chair Mr. Arar, and I could have in this chair Mr. Abdelrazik, and I could have in this chair Bashir Makhtal, who is still in an Ethiopian jail. I could go down the list, and I'm sad to say that's what they said. And in the case of Mr. Makhtal, he isn't able to say that yet. It angers me. It gives me absolute certainty that we have to do something. I don't want to hear another story come before us, because it means we've failed entirely. We are failing right now. That's not a game to be played, a partisan chip to be played, but it's about the fact that Canadian citizens abroad aren't being served, and you have just told us yet another story of what happens.
I know that in the case of Saudi Arabia we have diplomatic relations. If we can't do something for a Canadian citizen in this situation, then we have to question what we're doing.
Ms. Mohamud, you said it was the KLM officials who questioned you on your passport. It's interesting to note that when I asked the government officials whether we train officials from other governments, they said, no, we train airline officials. So it's your belief that they're the ones who called you on your passport and said, “We don't believe you are who this represents”, which I would connect directly to our training. I'm saying that, and I've heard evidence from officials that in fact we do train people from airlines. You would have heard that just in the testimony before. So then you end up in jail and in circumstances no one should be under.
In terms of the response from the Canadian government--and I want to be clear here--you said that instead of going to your aid to help you, they questioned you further as to whether you were who you were?
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
In fact, when you bought your passport, you paid at least $25 to get consular services. I'm not sure that anyone would say you were provided the services you paid for. In fact what you got, as we've seen with others, was that when you asked for help you got the opposite.
How many Canadian officials did you actually talk to during the time you were in jail and during the time you were in Kenya?
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Five Canadian officials? And each one of them questioned who you were and didn't believe who you were?