Evidence of meeting #31 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mongolia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
You were just about out of time there.
We're going to move over to Monsieur Dorion.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Ms. Barrados, thank you for being here.
You talked about collaborative programs with China, in your field. How can one reconcile the mode of operation as it exists in Canada, which is, in principle, that of a public service that is impartial and independent from politics, and that of a country such as China?
How does one adjust to a country where, quite obviously, the public service is controlled politically, as is the case in China? How do you manage to be useful in this regard?
3:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
With regard to relations with China, it is very important to define the areas in which we share mutual interests. The public service of China is obviously different from ours. In this system, the public service does not have the same relationship with the political apparatus. It is a completely different system.
Areas for which there truly is tremendous common interest between China and Canada are the appraisal and performance evaluation system for officials, the management system within the public service and the process for selecting individuals. We hold numerous discussions. The contexts are very different, but the questions are the same. However, in their case, their very large population is a challenge.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Thank you.
I will let my colleague, Ms. Deschamps, take over from me.
October 28th, 2010 / 3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Welcome, Madam. In the information provided to us, you give as examples the partnership models you presently have in place with China, the Ukraine, Mongolia and India. Are there other models? I am thinking of Afghanistan. To you have a partnership project with Afghanistan?
3:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
No, we do not have a project with Afghanistan at the present time. I had the visit of representatives from the Afghan government. They were asking me to help them. However, I do not have the necessary resources. In order to be able to do something in Afghanistan, the public service must have a broader strategy than the simple intervention of a single organization.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Do you have projects with the Sudan? Were any approaches made?
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
3:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
No, I have never had discussions with anyone from the Sudan.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Very well.
Are the majority of your projects still supported by CIDA?
3:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
Only the project with Ukraine. That is the only one that benefits from support and funding from CIDA. In the case of the project with China, it is financed by the Public Service Commission. In the case of Mongolia, it is now the PSC that is in charge. It can therefore not be very broad. As for India, discussions are underway with Foreign Affairs in order to obtain funding.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Very well.
In what year was the project in Ukraine developed?
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
It was in 2006 or... Every time you finish a project in the countries you have chosen, is some form of evaluation carried out? Do you have performance indicators? In some cases, have things been truly disastrous?
3:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
CIDA is required to do an evaluation of its projects. In the case of Ukraine, it is a CIDA project. An evaluation must be done in order to obtain the renewal of the funding. I believe that the people responsible for the project in Ukraine are going to be coming next week. They will be able to provide you with more information regarding the project. A longer term perspective is probably required in order to measure the success of projects.
In the case of China, it is not really a project, but rather an exchange program. We carry out the evaluations once the visits are over. During the symposium we held, we did an evaluation and decided to hold a second one, this time in Canada.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Very well.
Perhaps the question has already been put to you and I missed it, but I would like to know who chooses the place, the country with which you establish these partnerships. Does the government tell you the direction to take? Do you choose at random? Have you been approached? Ukraine, Mongolia and China are not your ordinary regions. I have just come from the Subcommittee on International Human Rights where we discussed the situation in China. What is going on over there right now is not very pretty. The situation is even moving backwards in the area of human rights. I am therefore somewhat worried, given that in Canada we are always promoting the primacy of the law and of the respect of human rights.
3:55 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
The choice of the projects is done somewhat randomly, but it is never done without the support of the government. We are very concerned by the situation in numerous countries. However, the work that we do is in the field of public administration. Consequently, we have a better understanding of the way in which governments operate. This helps us immensely. However, when we choose a country, it is based upon a decision by the government.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
This allows you to establish networking that can benefit both the people in the field in the foreign country you go to as well as ourselves, here in Canada. Certain resources and information provided through this networking can even benefit the government. Have you ever had a project refused?
3:55 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
I have received many requests, but I always tell my staff, who obviously have a tremendous interest in these projects, that we must be careful. We also have budgetary constraints and other obligations. In my view, we can, through less formal means, for example by calling upon people who have retired and other types of resources as a country, accomplish a lot more, in a less formal way.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
The people who contribute are often public service retirees. Do they participate as volunteers or do they receive any remuneration in one form or another in exchange for their contribution to a project?
3:55 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
In my view, that might come in the future. The projects I talked about are all led by public servants, assisted by former public servants.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much. That's all the time we have. We'll probably come back and see if we can get you at the end.
I'm going to move over to Mr. Abbott. You have 10 minutes, sir.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Barrados, for being with us today.
I think, for clarity, I'd like to give you an opportunity to make a statement about whether this has anything to do with enlarging the Public Service Commission or with having extra functions within the public service. I'd like you to have the opportunity to express precisely what you have in mind for this function--the very, very low-cost function--of being able to share the great asset we have in Canada with the world. How would you see it structured? And would it require any movement, shifting, redeployment, or change in description within the Public Service Commission?
3:55 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
I am not asking for more authority, a broader mandate, or more money for the Public Service Commission. Thank you for letting me clarify that.
What we do at the Public Service Commission is really on a very small scale. What I'm faced with, given the interest and demand—and this came really to the forefront with Mongolia—is how we do this as a country and as a public service. How can we do these things without actually growing any of the other government departments? I certainly don't want to grow the Public Service Commission in this area. I had the same discussion with respect to India: how do we do this?
Certainly, domestically, within the Public Service Commission, there has to be a reliance on other experts and other departments in other parts of government. And I think there is a tremendous opportunity to take advantage of the large group of people who are retiring out of the public service.
We have a retirement rate of executives of about 9%, which we've had for the last few years. That rate is going to continue until about 2013. They're retiring out very young in the public service--that's another debate altogether. The average age is around 58. They still have a lot to contribute. They have a lot of experience. They have a lot to contribute, and they're actually keen to volunteer. Some of them want to make money, but many of them are keen to volunteer. I see a tremendous opportunity, actually, to take advantage of this pool of people who are in good health, are keen to volunteer, and are keen to do things, by connecting it with this demand.
There is a strong demand, and when there's strong demand and mutual interest on the part of the country, and you have a pool of volunteers, there must be some way to put them together. I think there's an opportunity here through things like networks and collaboration. Those are concepts, but you develop the inventories, and people can search the inventories. And probably a small amount of seed money from a place like CIDA or External Affairs would allow the development of plans. There has to be a bit of seed money so that you can travel to these countries and spend time sitting down with them and asking what exactly they think would be helpful and what exactly we can contribute.
I think the discussions you'll have with Ukraine will show how extremely beneficial this is to making progress. So a small amount of seed money is what I would be....
If there really is a mutual interest in pursuing this further, then there are other funding agencies. CIDA is one. The Royal Bank and some development funds and foundations are others. And some of these countries actually have some money they could put toward this. For instance, if you have a lot of natural resources, and you have revenue from natural resources, and this is important to you, you should be making some contribution to this too. It could be in kind, such as by putting staff toward it.