Foreign Affairs Committee on April 1st, 2010

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay. Did you tender these contracts to other firms to secure these contracts?

[Jacques P. Gauthier]

No, I did not.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Isn't it the practice of the board to tender contracts over $10,000 to ensure that the rules are followed?

[Jacques P. Gauthier]

Well, let's back up a little bit here. You're not talking to me as a board member. I'm now the acting president.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Let's not get into the weeds here. You know the information on the contracts. They were contracts that either as a board member you were aware of or as president you signed off. I'm just asking a very simple question that Canadians should know the answer to. One of these contracts is with Prima Communications, whose president I think might be here, Peter Stockland, who is a contributor to Cardus, a think tank headed by Michael Van Pelt, who is a member of the board.

What's going on here? The allegations you have made have been about accountability, and when I ask you how much these contracts are worth, you're saying you don't know.

Do you know or not know how much these contracts are worth? Why weren't they tendered? Why weren't the rules followed?

[Jacques P. Gauthier]

I think I've answered your question. I have not received the accounts, so for me to try--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

So you don't know.

[Jacques P. Gauthier]

At this stage, I don't know how much these contracts... If you think about my answer, I'm saying that I have not received the accounts. When I receive the accounts I will know.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

So did you just give them a blank cheque and tell them to go and do services and you would pay whatever, whenever?

[Jacques P. Gauthier]

Let's break down the contracts.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm just asking the question. Did you have any idea how much money was going to be spent on these contracts?

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Chair, we have had a fairly civilized tone in this meeting. Mr. Rae has asked some very, very difficult questions, as we all have.

I think the tone that is being displayed by Mr. Dewar is disrespectful of the witnesses. I would like him, if he would, just to calm himself down a little bit. It would be helpful--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Can I leave it at this? Can you provide this committee with an estimate of how much those contracts were worth and why they weren't tendered?

[Jacques P. Gauthier]

I'll do better than that, Mr. Dewar. The accounts, when they come, will become public. You will know exactly how much these contracts will have incurred.

What I was trying to do, and you interrupted me--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Sorry, answer my question.

[Jacques P. Gauthier]

I wanted to underline to you the importance of the work given to Samson Bélair Deloitte. You talk about an inquiry. They are doing an inquiry at this time, and the purpose of their work is not only to underline deficiencies but to make recommendations so that together we can--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I wasn't asking that--

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I have to cut everybody off here. That's all the time we have.

We're going to go back over to Mr. Obhrai for five minutes. We will start our second round of questions and answers for five minutes.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of you for coming here. Just before the untimely death of Mr. Beauregard, he came to see me, as parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, to talk about the vision and the work of Rights and Democracy. Today we have the current board members as well as the chair.

While the other questions are going on, on the other points, Canadians are also interested in knowing this. You have said it's a dysfunctional board. You have said this. I would like to hear from all of you about what you are putting in place to make this board functional. Where are you, going forward? What is your vision going forward? We want to move forward. Could you please tell this committee, minus all of this innuendo that's going on, where it is going? Mr. Beauregard did give me a brief outline as to what his vision was, and I want to hear from you as to where and how you are putting this board back on track and moving forward.

[Aurel Braun]

Is this question directed at me?

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Well, the organization.

[Aurel Braun]

I will start, and perhaps the other members of the board can join in, because we work collectively.

I think the question is very important in terms of not only looking at the past and the present but also looking to the future, because that is exactly what we are engaged in. Our goal is to make sure this organization works well and fulfills its mandate.

I don't want to leave the impression that the board is dysfunctional. The board is not dysfunctional. It is the organization that has been dysfunctional.

It is also extremely important to understand the period that we're undergoing. Crises have been manufactured. There has also been a tragedy. The president passed away and the management staff created a number of crises. In a sense, they created a fire. We are in a situation of transition where we have to address this. When you have a fire, you try to put it out and bring things under control. It is somewhat ironic that people would ask how much water we're using.

We need to make sure that we do the right thing and that we act responsibly. We have a fiduciary duty. Our future goal is to make sure the programs fulfill the mandate of promoting human rights and democracy. It is absolutely crucial that we operate within the good conscience of the Canadian people and there is proper accountability. As a board, we are accountable. We report to Parliament. Those who are accountable are not only entitled to information, but we must make sure there's a system where we get the information to make informed decisions. We want the fullest possible information to make the best possible decisions and to continue programs that deliver public goods to the intended recipients, and that we do so economically and in a timely fashion. For example, we have already taken steps to make sure that we enhance what we're delivering to Haiti. It's been a key concern.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

May I interrupt here, Mr. Chair?

The new president will be coming in front of the committee. We'll hear what the new president will require.

Through the chair, in conjunction with the chair and everyone, may I ask that you provide to the committee what the next project is going to be, what the board is concentrating on, and where it's going? We'd then have a better idea and understanding that the board is now moving forward. Through the chair, in conjunction with the new president, could you give us a plan for the next six months?

[Aurel Braun]

Yes, absolutely. We'd be happy to talk about it.

We've been consulting with the new chair. We are proceeding to the period of transition. A number of very significant projects have already been approved. Those are continuing. We're doing the key work. We are enhancing certain things, such as our position in Haiti. We are certainly in that process. We want to communicate with the chair.

We have some other members who might wish to say a few words.

[David Matas]

Obviously, this is very much a matter of concern to me. I came here saying the problem is that there's a dispute about the independence of the board from the staff. The board has to assert itself.

I proposed a number of resolutions dealing with this issue. Of course, there's the Middle East one that we've talked about, but I also presented a resolution affirming the role of the board in controlling and managing the organization. We have cut out the discretionary funding, the urgent action opportunity. The president basically said the funding has to come through the board. We closed down the Geneva office, which we felt was operating without proper controls. We will continue to do a number of activities that will assert the control of the board over the direction of the institution.

Another one that occurs to me is the block granting to the Congo, which was originally proposed for three years. We're looking at it year by year, instead of all three years at once.

I accept your invitation. I'll work with the others to propose a plan that will show how we are trying to develop more complete control over the organization.