Foreign Affairs Committee on June 16th, 2011

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

For consistency, can we just make it 4 p.m.?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I think four o'clock would be reasonable across the board, because there would still be people working. You're right, though, that Parliament is not in.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Just for clarification, business ends at 2:30 for us in the House on Fridays, so it would be reasonable to have it in by two o'clock on Fridays.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Let's make it simple and say 4 p.m. on any day.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I'll reread the motion:

That 48 hours' notice be required for any substantive motion to be considered by the committee, unless the substantive motion relates directly to business then under consideration; and that the notice of motion be filed with the clerk of the committee and distributed to members in both official languages; and

That for motions requiring 48 hours' notice the chair be authorized to defer consideration until 15 minutes prior to the adjournment time for the meeting, as indicated in the notice of meeting, and that those motions be received no later than 4:00 p.m.

(Motion agreed to)

Before I go to the floor, I have two additional motions that will be part of our routine.

The first is that the committee be authorized to purchase documents for the use of the committee.

(Motion agreed to)

The next motion is that the committee be authorized to purchase gifts to be presented to foreign hosts and visiting delegations.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Are there any other thoughts or routine motions?

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I guess this isn't a routine motion, but I was going to raise the issue of the constitution of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Did you want to move that, Bob?

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Yes. I move that, pursuant to Standing Orders 108(1) and 108(2), a Subcommittee on International Human Rights, to be chaired by a member elected by the subcommittee, be established to inquire into matters relating to the promotion of respect for international human rights, as may be referred to it by the committee; that the subcommittee be composed of seven members or associate members, of whom four shall be government members, two shall be NDP members, and one shall be from the Liberal Party, to be named following the usual consultations with the whips; and that the subcommittee be empowered to send for persons, papers, and records, to receive evidence, to sit during a time when the committee is not sitting in Ottawa, to sit when the committee is sitting outside the parliamentary precinct, and to sit during periods when the House stands adjourned; and that the chair of the subcommittee meet with the steering committee of the foreign affairs committee at their mutual discretion.

I'll provide you with this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Dewar.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Chair, this is more a comment to government that they seriously consider...because it's really up to you guys if this is going to happen. I think there was a consensus in the last Parliament from the foreign affairs committee, and from all parties, I believe—Chair, you can correct me if I'm wrong—that this actually should be a stand-alone committee, that it should have full standing independent of this committee.

I simply wish to have that conveyed to government. I know that some of the members, Mr. Goldring, Mr. Van Kesteren, and Ms. Brown as well.... We had difficulties, frankly, in having to receive reports from the subcommittee and essentially having to sign off on them without having been involved.

I think the issue of international human rights is extremely important and deserves separate standing. I don't think this is partisan. It's not political. I think it does reflect the wishes, if I'm not wrong—and others can speak to it—of what we had a consensus on in the previous Parliament in foreign affairs.

I wish that would be conveyed. I would like to note that publicly. Also, perhaps government might respond, maybe not today...if you don't feel comfortable, by all means, I understand. But I think that's a message that should be transmitted and I'd like it to be taken seriously: this subcommittee should be a standing committee. It does substantive work. It's a serious issue. It deserves to have separate standing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Goldring.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Well, I agree that there is a sense of uncomfortableness to have a report from another committee put before us: do you alter the work of the other committee or do you just stamp it going through? But I also think there's an importance here for the foreign affairs committee in regard to reviewing the report, because it could very well be impacting the work we may be doing on other issues.

So in a sense, I kind of agree, but on the other hand, I think it's important for us as a committee to be presented with it, and to have the opportunity to maybe pass comment on it if there's other work we're doing in conjunction with and at the same time as that report from the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Go ahead, Paul.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

That's a fair comment from Mr. Goldring. I'll just note that I think it would be worthwhile if the government actually looked at other jurisdictions and how it's done. I note that if there are shared interests, committees work together all the time. We're able to do that structurally and functionally. We have shared interests and common concerns, and of course all reports are tabled in Parliament so we have access to them.

So I think it's a fair comment, but I think what we've seen over the last number of years is that with the issues we see in what we have to deal with, and the issues that the subcommittee on human rights sees--there's enough work for everyone--I find it very dysfunctional to have this committee sign off on work that's done by another committee.

Again, I think the concerns Mr. Goldring has are valid, but I think they could be dealt with in a way that would satisfy everyone. Certainly we've noted that with international trade, for instance; we have opportunities to access reports if we have a shared interest. For that matter, there's defence, and if we need to have a joint committee, there are ways of doing that.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Could I pass along an example?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

One second, Mr. Goldring, I'm going to come back to you.

Mr. LeBlanc.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, I want to support what Mr. Dewar said. Our colleague Irwin Cotler was of the view as well that there may be merit in looking at a separate standing committee, particularly if this committee, as many of us hope, will be active in some foreign policy in international development areas, in order not to shortchange or not to give appropriate attention to the issues. If you look at events in recent months, there is a lot of work in the area of international human rights. I would just suggest that the government consider this, maybe with the whips. I don't know the proper forum where these things would be decided, but my conversation with Mr. Cotler confirms there is a lot of merit in what Paul said, and at the right time and in the right way, if this can be resolved in the fall, or if we can look at this issue again when we've had a chance to talk to our whips, I think there'd be merit in that.

Merci.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Goldring.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

I think that by having it come through the foreign affairs committee it gives us that overarching to take a look at the report. I'm thinking back. We've done studies on the Americas and there have been reports coming through from members of the Americas through the subcommittee. I think we could carry this through to Asia and have reports coming through from Asian countries.

For me, I can see the other complication of how to deal with a report. But from the point of view that this is the foreign affairs committee and we do travel to some of these countries and the ministers travel, it is good to have that oversight at least coming through this committee so that we're apprised of the nature and contents of the subcommittee report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We have a motion on the floor, which we haven't passed. We got sidetracked.

Are there any other comments on the motion? It is the one I read 15 minutes ago. We're coming back to it.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Could I hear the language?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I will it read again just for clarification:

That, pursuant to Standing Orders 108(1) and 108(2), a Subcommittee on International Human Rights to be chaired by a member elected by the subcommittee, be established to· inquire into matters relating to the promotion of respect for international human rights, as may be referred to it by the committee; that the subcommittee be composed of seven members or associate members, of whom four shall be government members and two shall be NDP members, and one shall be from the Liberal Party, to be named following the usual consultations with the whips; that the subcommittee be empowered to send for persons, papers, and records, to receive evidence, to sit during a time when the committee is not sitting in Ottawa, to sit when the committee is sitting outside the parliamentary precinct, and to sit during periods when the House stands adjourned; and that the chair of the subcommittee meet with the steering committee of the foreign affairs committee at their mutual discretion.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

That was four, two, and one?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's correct.