Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2013

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

As we don't have a lot of time left, I will ask you a very quick question.

I would like to give you an opportunity to expand a bit more on the idea of resilience and things that can be done to build the resilience of a population.

[Quentin Levet]

Thank you very much for that question.

The resilience of a population refers to its ability to withstand shock. So that entails ensuring some continuity between emergency response projects and development projects. That means everyone has to agree on how to tie humanitarian projects to development. It is paramount that cooperation on the development front resume in Mali, so that those on the ground can make the connections needed between emergency response projects and development projects.

Resilience also entails—and Canada may be able to help with this—providing support to re-establish basic public services in northern Mali. As you know, the conflict has had a serious impact on public servants, and thus basic services. Today, the process would mean helping public services resume in that part of the country. Resilience would also involve support for operations, which not only address urgent needs, but also help strengthen communities' capacity to look after themselves so they are more resistant to shocks affecting their environment. I am referring to their control over farming, water, community resources and so forth.

There again, some very specific programs have been established, and some of them have already been included in the CAP 2013 for Mali. There, as well, some key initiatives have been put in place, such as the European Union's AGIR. I urge Canada to join that platform, and work with other partners to agree on shared objectives and provide the support needed so that all of our efforts flow from an integrated and well-coordinated approach.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Madame Laverdière.

We're going to move over to the government side, to Ms. Brown. You have seven minutes, please.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Mr. Levet, for joining us here this morning.

It's been an interesting investigation over the last several weeks about what's going on in Mali. Canada is very concerned about the humanitarian situation that is taking place there. Our foreign affairs minister has called many times for a safe passage for humanitarian assistance to get through. Perhaps you can speak to some of the issues.

Before doing that, I want to reinforce the fact that Canada has been present in Mali. It's been a country of focus for us. We've been putting $110 million a year in for the last three years to ensure that we develop that resilience, to build on governance issues, to help them build capacity in many areas. We've been involved in security building as well. Canada has had quite a presence there.

You talk specifically about the funding conference that took place in Addis Ababa and the money hasn't come in. Could you speak to the issue of how important it is that countries pay what they pledge? Obviously, you have to make your plans based on that. Canada has affirmed that we will put in $13 million. Canada has a history under this government of paying what we pledge. Could you speak to that? How do you go about making your plans when the money isn't always forthcoming? What do you do if you don't get that money?

The other thing I'd like you to speak to is the effectiveness of our contribution to the Sahel region resilience program. Canada stepped up to the plate a year ago when we saw the Sahel starting this cyclical drought problem, which has happened there for decades, probably millennia. Canada came forward with $56 million last year to help build that resilience. Can you tell the committee what kinds of programs have been initiated that are going to help the Sahel region for the long run, not just for this problem specifically, but for the long run in helping to build irrigation and develop a food program that they are going to have in perpetuity?

The floor is yours.

[Quentin Levet]

Thank you very much for these questions. I'll try to answer the best I can.

I thank Canada for its support following the Addis Ababa conference, but I do think we need to clarify a few things here.

The Addis Ababa conference, as you know, was meant to gather support from the international community mainly for the support package to the deployment of AFISMA forces and also to support the Malian defence and civilian forces. There have been two trust funds created by the UN as per Resolution 2085. There is one trust fund for the Malian forces, and one trust fund for the AFISMA forces. It is true that there are some budget lines that are more dedicated to humanitarian activities.

Again, I would stress the importance of not looking at this conference as a conference that will help us respond to the humanitarian needs in Mali as a whole. This conference was meant to get support for these two forces. OCHA has helped. In collaboration with different organizations, NGOs, and UN agencies, we have issued an appeal for 2013, which amounts to $370 million. This is basically to be sure this appeal is dedicated to civilian type of humanitarian activities, not activities that will help support the deployment of these forces. Of course security is an important issue. As I told you earlier, without security we cannot expect to access the people who are in need. But again, the main appeal here is the humanitarian 2013 CAP that was launched a few weeks ago.

On the second question in terms of—

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

If I may just ask, does that take into consideration at all Canada's long-term investment and the fact that to date we're looking at $70 million from Canada over the last year in humanitarian relief? Does that play into your thinking anywhere when you look at what countries are contributing?

[Quentin Levet]

Very honestly, I am more aware of the pledges from countries through the CAP, through what we have been working on. I'm less aware where the other pledges—

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

So you're not looking at the historical commitments that have been made.

[Quentin Levet]

Yes, of course we are very grateful for the continuous support of Canada. Again, I've met with Canada in different parts of the world. When I was working in all these different countries, Canada has always been there as a major donor.

Right now, regarding Mali, I would urge you to look at the humanitarian needs that came up and were represented and for which we are now asking support in the context of the CAP 2013, which is the main planning tool we have to respond to the acute humanitarian crisis in Mali right now. I understand that Canada is an actor, and you have pledged and you will give supports through the Addis Ababa conference, and it's very nice. But I would urge you to also look at the main humanitarian appeal, which is again the 2013 CAP.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

That's all the time we have.

We're going to move over to Mr. Eyking, for seven minutes, please.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you for coming today and speaking from the UN headquarters, is it?

[Quentin Levet]

Yes.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I really don't expect you to give much opinion of what the UN thinks of our present government. I think it's been fairly clearly stated when we were not admitted to the Security Council. I would just like to reassure you that most Canadians are fully supportive of what the UN does around the world.

The reality is that you've mentioned there are 230,000 children dying of malnutrition. I think you mentioned some numbers. You need almost $150 million over the next few months.

There's no doubt that Canada has historically been a big supporter of Mali. I think the biggest concern of many of us, and I think you people also, is where we go in the future, that the money is just not sporadically coming and there's some long-term commitment.

I'd like you to give a little more detail on the two parts of where that money will be going. One of course is your military action with AFISMA and how we can help, besides with money, with your forces. But also, we hope the dust will settle on this conflict and, assuming that we will step up to the plate and have the money for you, how are you going to deal with that, with the transition?

[Quentin Levet]

Thank you very much. I hope I have understood your question.

I think that right now what I also want to clarify is that I represent OCHA, the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. The United Nations are much bigger and the political affairs.... The DPKO, their peace-keeping operations department, will also have their say, but as far as humanitarian affairs are concerned, I do believe that right now we are facing acute needs, and these needs must be addressed.

So I'm sure that we can rely on Canada's support through the CAP 2013 to enable us to respond to these needs. But we all understand here that basically responding to the emergency needs as such will not solve the deeper development issues within the country, and we also understand the necessity to invest in resilience. I would say that investing in resilience today will be more cost-effective if we do it right and in a well-coordinated manner. It means that in the future we will be spending less on humanitarian-type activities, because, again, the idea is that through resilience the capacity of communities to face shocks is strengthened.

If we manage to build this well-coordinated continuum between emergency and development aid, if we are adequately and strategically supporting the restoration of state services in the poorest and most isolated areas—and basically we have the communities that create value thanks to your funding—in that case these values and this money will be reinvested indefinitely. It will be trickling down to other sectors, such as education.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

That's fine, but my question is how much and when will you need this money?

[Quentin Levet]

To face the emergency needs, it's right now that we need the money, and then, keep in mind, that your support in terms of responding to humanitarian needs must be part of a wider strategy aimed at building resilience. The United Nations will be happy to work with you to define this longer term strategy.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Can you tell me a little bit about what's happening on the ground? My understanding is that donor countries have been supporting the Mali government, helping it deal with education and health on a daily basis, before the conflict, in rule of law, and right now, I guess, many cannot put the money there. How much disarray...? We've talked about starvation. We've talked about many of the medical issues. What's happening on the ground as far as kids not going to school and teachers not getting paid are concerned? What's your sense on the ground?

[Quentin Levet]

My sense on the ground is that the situation today, the conflict, has disrupted most of the social services in the northern part of the country. This is one fact.

Also, we must not only look at the north because 80% of the needs today are in the south. Most of the IDPs have fled the north for the south. In the south the problems that we have now are much more related to capacity building. Of course, we must help the IDPs and respond to the crisis with the IDPs, but we also have to reorientate the programming towards more capacity-building activities at the grassroots level.

I think that the situation in Mali and the outcome of the political crisis, etc., have raised the fragility of the state institutions. There has also been some corruption, and we need to face all of those as factors that we need to consider today. If we have to continue our cooperation and strengthen the government capacities, we should also look at how we can encourage communities to develop capacities themselves and basically their access to social services in the proximity. In my view, this is what was lacking a bit in the past. We should have a more decentralized kind of vision for addressing both short-term and longer term needs in terms of resilience building.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to start our second five-minute round with Mrs. Grewal.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

And thank you, Mr. Levet, for your time and your presentation.

My question follows up on the question from the parliamentary secretary, Mrs. Brown.

In general, how important is it for countries to pay what they pledge in response to humanitarian appeals? When this does not happen, how does it affect your work?

[Quentin Levet]

First, it affects our work. If you mention these pledges that still have to be translated into actual money to fund the supports, the logistical aspects of the deployment of AFISMA and Malian forces is one. It has to be addressed to ensure the security of the country and the Malian army to recover and maintain its territorial integrity.

But to the more humanitarian aspects of our work, getting money is not like a bottomless well. If we don't have a donor, if we lack funding, we will also try to get some other donors to become interested. We are all straining to be continuously in the mindset whereby we try to optimize our efficiency.

As I said earlier, if adequately coordinated and supported, our resilience can be cost-effective in the end. In Haiti and in other countries facing a recurring crisis, you have a choice between intervening from one crisis to another, or supporting many more resident-based activities. In that case you will reduce the impact of future emergencies in this country, if the assistance is well coordinated.

Today, if I have a message to convey to you, it would be to look at these aspects and continue to support them.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Our government has been outspoken about Mali adopting its road map. Do you think Mali will accomplish the goals laid out in this document?

Can you also please outline some of the specific recent success stories in Mali and the greater Sahel region?

[Quentin Levet]

I assume you are speaking about the political road map.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Yes, absolutely.

[Quentin Levet]

Okay.

We all know by now that the situation in the Malian conflict is not only military, but it's much more a political, long-term process that needs to bring different actors to dialogue, to find a consensus, and to build the states' capacities in these isolated areas that have been forgotten over the past years.

There are some success stories, for example, the fact that the governments have shown signs of willingness to negotiate with one of the Tuareg rebel groups, which is the MNLA. There are also some other signs that they want to have elections by the end of July. There could be some other examples that show the political process could be perceived as moving forward. But I think we need to maintain pressure on the authorities, because we also see some antagonism within the political elites. Not all political forces agree with the recent statement from the presidents and the prime minister. It doesn't mean that everybody agrees on the potential of negotiations with the MNLA.

So I would say if we have to go in that direction, because there is no other way to get out of this crisis right now, pressure must be maintained to make sure they are participating as authorities in this planning process, and that they are also incited to move forward, so we not only have a political process on paper, but also something concrete on the ground.