Evidence of meeting #66 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was humanitarian.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Siebert  Executive Director, Project Ploughshares
Lucien Bradet  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Council on Africa
Quentin Levet  Team Leader, Coordination and Response Division, United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs

11:50 a.m.

Executive Director, Project Ploughshares

John Siebert

Yes, certainly.

Over the 10 years the YPI program was funded by the Department of Foreign Affairs, we found that the 100-plus people we sent out actually did what the program was designed to do, which was to become engaged in international careers throughout the UN system in different parts of the world. Many I now bump into at CIDA and at Foreign Affairs.

This kind of strategy is longer term, obviously, not only for Canadians engaged in international peace building but also for the institutions that receive Canadians and benefit from their work when they're in situ. That's obviously not an immediate response to what's going on in Mali.

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Are you afraid that we're moving away from those long-term approaches, which are very fruitful, and from people-to-people links in Africa and elsewhere?

11:50 a.m.

Executive Director, Project Ploughshares

John Siebert

We're certainly an advocate for strengthening civil society participation in peace processes, in disarmament processes, and in other sources of activities, obviously on the development side. Our development colleagues in the NGO community are very interested, very concerned, and are working on these issues.

You can't create government institutions without the consent and the legitimacy of the people. Civil society needs to be engaged. Women need to be engaged because there are gender dimensions to conflict that people like me still need to learn a lot about. Those sorts of supports are definitely needed.

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

What should the Canadian contribution be to the work plan to return to full democracy, the road map?

11:50 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Council on Africa

Lucien Bradet

As I said to your colleague on the other side, it all depends on how the conflict evolves. Canada can play a role because it has played a role in peacekeeping in the past. The principles enunciated by the minister are very clear. We do not want to have another Afghanistan if we can avoid it. I was listening to the exchange in the House a few minutes ago. Can we terminate that combat and bataille? I don't think so. We've done that. We've tried elsewhere and it doesn't work. We've tried in Afghanistan, in one country. Now we're talking about a whole region with fewer people, but I'm still very concerned by that.

Is there a road map at this point in time? I'm not a miracle person. I don't know the road map.

There are too many pitfalls, too much uncertainty.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you very much.

We're going to finish up with Mr. Van Kesteren. You have five minutes, please.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here. It's a very interesting discussion.

Mr. Siebert, like Mr. McKay, I long for the day, too, when we'll beat our swords into ploughshares. For example, in not too recent history, think of the Russians and the Bolsheviks, where 5% of the population was able to keep those people in a horrible state for 70 years.

We talked at the last meeting about military engagement. We talked about the survey that had come forth. Most Canadians are tired of these battles that never seem to come to any fruition. Should we just draw a line in the sand, as we did with the Soviet Union, and tell them to try their luck with their type of system and that we'll see them in 50 years, rather than try to correct them? Look at what we've done in Egypt and the hopes that we had for the Arab Spring. We look at the turmoil going on there. Every time we go in there, it seems to get worse.

11:55 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Council on Africa

Lucien Bradet

I don't know if you asked the question to both of us, but I'm willing to give my opinion.

I don't think we can do that, sir. I think that Canada is a rich country, one of the best in the world. We have responsibilities and we have no choice. We have to involve ourselves where human beings are menacés, where peace is not there. When we can do something, we have to do something.

I'm talking as a Canadian here and also for CCAfrica. But I'm talking as a Canadian. We have no choice. I don't think we can pack our bags and say, “Let them solve their problems.” We are not in that human environment anymore. We are in a global village and we have no choice but to help human beings where they are.

I agree with you that Canadians do not have the stomach at this point in time to start over in Afghanistan, in terms of the number of people and all of that. I agree with that. The minister is right in saying that, too, but there are different degrees.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

What about the involvement of other countries? As a Canadian, I think we do have some vested interest there, if we look at it from an economics standpoint. From a humanitarian standpoint, Mr. Siebert, I agree with you. We need to have that concern and love for our fellow man, too.

What about other countries? While France has 2,500 troops, it's nothing in comparison to what we committed to in Afghanistan. What about the other European countries? Don't they have more of a responsibility to play that role? We can play the role that we're doing now, and possibly do the things Mr. Siebert also—

11:55 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Council on Africa

Lucien Bradet

I think they do, but not all of them will play. The U.S. is already there helping. Canada is helping. Not all UN, EU countries will.

11:55 a.m.

Executive Director, Project Ploughshares

John Siebert

Here's the great news, and thank you for asking a question that allows me to say this. We've been tracking armed conflicts, wars, since 1987. In the last 15 years there's been a 40% decrease in the number of wars. Why did that happen? Here's the short story. The cold war ended, obviously, so that east-west confrontation wasn't being played out in proxy wars, but also there was a substantial increase in UN missions throughout the world, a substantial increase in UN diplomacy through special representatives of the Secretary-General, and development and humanitarian assistance investments, particularly in Africa.

The number of wars has decreased dramatically in Africa. Each one, if you're in it or your family's there, is a tragedy of untold proportions.

I'd also like to go back to the Soviet Union and the cold war. How did it end? It ended by people rising up. I know that internationally the churches, and other religious organizations were involved through the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe in the Helsinki process to keep pressing on the human rights, the human basket dimension, to look at economic incentives for ending those sorts of oppressive regimes.

My parents were refugees as four-year-olds in the 1920s from the former Soviet Union. I grew up with those stories. I'm privileged. I didn't live in a war zone when I grew up. But I think we shouldn't give up hope.

We have as a motto, part of our mission is to end war. You can chuckle a bit at the naïveté, but here's my Doctor Phil moment: how are these options working for ya?

Afghanistan has not responded to the types of initiatives that Mr. Fowler suggested here. Neither did Libya. We have a very unstable situation and we're not sure if a long-term sustainable peace in those places would happen. There are actually implications where the approach I'm advocating, which is a longer term peace-building approach, is much more dangerous for intervening troops. It's more likely that casualties will be taken, but you have to be there, you have to stay there, and you have to spread the security.

Sorry to take your time.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

No, thank you very much.

That's all the time we have. Mr. Siebert and Mr. Bradet, thank you very much for your testimony today.

We're going to suspend for a second to get set up for a teleconference to deal with the United Nations, and then we'll come right back.

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Okay, if we could have the members back to the table, we'll get started.

Welcome back, everyone. Joining us from New York, we've got Quentin Levet, the team leader for the coordination and response division with the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.

Mr. Levet, thank you very much for joining us today.

Just before we start with your opening testimony, I know that Mr. Dewar from the opposition had a quick comment and then we will get started right away with your testimony.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Thank you, Chair.

This will be quick. I just wanted to raise a point of clarification or point of order.

At the December 4 committee meeting, I asked Minister Fantino about the number of projects he had approved under the partnerships with Canadians programs, and actually the same question had been raised by my colleague Madame Laverdière. The minister didn't know the answer at the time of the meeting but committed to provide us with the exact number of projects that had been approved to that date.

We received the minister's response and I have it here in writing. It was provided to the committee on February 7, 2013. In it he says that as of January 23, 2013, he had approved 35 projects.

I obviously appreciate the response, but the minister's letter is not clear as to whether all 35 projects were under the partnerships with Canadians programs or if they include the total number of projects he has approved since his assignment as minister in July 2012.

Furthermore, the question I raised on December 4, 2012, was to ask how many projects had been approved by the partnerships with Canadians programs as of December 4, not January 23.

Mr. Chair, in order that the committee members have the clear information on which to base our mandated oversight of departmental spending, I ask that you request the minister provide a response to the question at hand, which is, as of December 4, 2012—which is when I posed the question—how many projects under partnerships with Canadians programs had been approved for funding by the minister.

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

We can send something off.

Thank you.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Thank you.

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Mr. Levet, thank you very much. We look forward to your opening statement. You have 10 minutes so we'll just turn the floor over to you and then we'll go back and forth with the members of the committee to ask questions for follow-up. Once again, thank you for taking time. We're looking forward to your testimony.

February 14th, 2013 / 12:05 p.m.

Quentin Levet Team Leader, Coordination and Response Division, United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs

Thank you very much, sir. I thank, as well, the panel for giving me this opportunity today.

The current escalation of the conflict in Mali comes at a time when Mali remains in the grip of a serious multidimensional crisis that affects the entire western Sahel region, where in a good year more than 230,000 children die of the consequences of malnutrition.

In 2012 there were more acute food and security crises spanning nine countries of the Sahara. It affected close to 19 million people and pushed 4.6 million Malians to the edge of survival with malnutrition rates beyond the emergency threshold.

In addition to a long-standing lack of democratic governance, rampant organized crime, and rising poverty in the region, the Libya crisis generated a large influx of weapons in the Sahel and the return of migrants that quickly fuelled insecurity in the north of Mali and forced more than 400,000 people to flee their homes. Massive displacements within and out of the country—Mauritania, Burkino Faso, Niger—exerted additional pressure on areas already severely affected by the food and nutrition crisis.

This year, humanitarian actors estimate that 4.3 million people are in need of assistance and protection, including 700,000 people in need of immediate food assistance in the north. There are 200,000 children under age five who remain at risk of severe acute malnutrition.

With renewed fighting on the 10th of January, Mali entered a new phase that saw growing humanitarian needs against a backdrop of increased isolation of its northern regions and limited access by humanitarian workers, including in areas previously considered secure.

More than 36,000 people have fled their homes in northern and central Mali as a result of armed confrontation, bringing the overall number of displaced Malians to 408,500. This figure includes 241,500 IDPs and 167,000 refugees.

The continued lack of access in some parts and the volatility of the security context have resulted in a growing isolation of the northern provinces, and therefore the situation of people remaining in the north is worrisome. There are reports of imminent food shortages, spikes in the price of available food commodities, and limited access to health care, education, and water.

With the closure of the Algerian border, the amount of food coming into the northern areas has halved. On the Mopti markets, which also supplied the northern regions, the availability of imported rice and millet dropped by 30%, while costing 120% more than the last five-year average.

If commercial and humanitarian traffic continue to be disrupted, the levels of food insecurity could increase in the next few weeks. The confirmed contamination of landmines and unexploded ordnance in areas around major towns in the north, such as Timbuktu, Gao, Kidal, as well as in the central part of the country, Diabaly, Konna, Douentza, also poses a major threat to civilians. It prevents IDPs and refugees from returning home and humanitarian workers from helping those in need.

Insecurity related to the last round of fighting has similarly limited the scope of the humanitarian response in the north for the past weeks. Today, while the main corridor to the north, Mopti-Douentza-Gao, remains closed above Douentza, due to the presence of mines and terrorist threats, humanitarian access is now gradually improving in the central part of the country and humanitarian partners are now better able to scale up their response.

Food delivery by the World Food Programme, WFP, resumed on the 2nd and 3rd of February, using barges on the Niger River. Seven boats loaded with about 600 tonnes of commodities, targeting some 147,500 people, departed from Mopti to Niafunké district in the Timbuktu region. Basic emergency health kits, enough to treat 5,000 people per month, malnutrition treatment kits, and other emergency inputs were also sent by UNICEF to the Gao and Kidal regions.

Emergency response continues and is progressively scanning it. It is expected that humane trained agencies will gradually re-deploy in the conflict-affected areas in order to obtain a more tangible picture of the needs, better understanding of the local dynamics among communities, and deliver much needed emergency assistance.

The initial results of needs assessments show that people affected by the crisis identify food, shelter, lack of essential items, and access to clean water and sanitation as the top needs in addition to infrastructure repair.

Lack of access to health care and exposure to unsanitary conditions also pose a risk of increased epidemics, including cholera. It is imperative that food and nutrition assistance programs increase soon to address the needs of hundreds of thousands of people who were also already very vulnerable prior to the current crisis.

The response toward Malian refugees was also scaled up. The situation in the refugee camps is worrying, especially in Mauritania. Recent reports have shown critical gaps, and urgent funding is needed to address them. It is imperative that a distinction between the humanitarian and security political agenda be maintained. A failure to maintain this distinction could endanger the perceived neutrality and security of humanitarians and thus their ability to reach those in need.

An increased presence of humanitarian actors in the north would have a positive impact on the protection of civilians, but this requires rapid and unimpeded access. To do so, OCHA, the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, and its partners are developing and maintaining sound civilian military coordination with Malian, French and AFISMA military forces.

The humanitarian partners also need security arrangements in terms of security management, information analysis, that will enable them to provide the much needed assistance. For such a security capacity to be deployed to Mali in a timely fashion, the UN system, through the United Nations Department of Safety and Security, UNDSS, urgently requires financial support to support the humanitarian response.

Cases of recruitment and use of children by armed groups and of sexual and gender-based violence against women and girls continue to be reported. It is a priority for the humanitarian community in Mali to scale up assistance for the protection of civilians, in particular women and children, and roll out effective human rights monitoring. There are also grave concerns about the repercussions of military operations on the safety of civilians, notably in light of alleged executions committed by elements of armed forces. It is imperative that all parties operate in adherence with international humanitarian law and take all appropriate measures to protect civilians from the effect of hostilities. In this regard, we consider that the training of the Malian forces and AFISMA forces on the international human rights humanitarian and legal frameworks is a necessity especially in practical methods for the implementation.

The United Nations is also committed to implement its human rights due diligence policy, while providing support to the Malian authorities and AFISMA. Humanitarian partners will need to maintain a sustained dialogue with the minorities and communities at the national and local levels and be accountable to those they come to help.

It is also important that development projects continue where possible and that coordination mechanisms between humanitarian and development actors are announced to implement programs that would further build the resilience of the Malian people.

For all this to happen, it is crucial that funding be sustained for humanitarian activities in 2013. As of January 30, the Mali 2013 CAP has received only $10 million, less than 3% of its total $370 million requirement. Without adequate resources, humanitarian partners will not have the tools they require to meet the country's most urgent needs. The regional humanitarian coordinator estimates the most urgent requirements by United Nations agencies for Mali and neighbouring countries in the next three months at $148 million.

Much more is needed to keep providing help to the displaced and the families who host them, to maintain our response to the continuing impact of the 2012 food and nutrition crisis, and to address the underlying chronic nature of food insecurity. It is vital that necessary funds be made available immediately to enable us to address these priority needs.

Thank you very much.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you very much, Mr. Levet.

We're going to start right now with the opposition and Madame Laverdière, for seven minutes, please.

12:15 p.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Levet, thank you for your presentation. It was very informative.

My first question is more general.

What could Canada do to help the tragic situation you described? What could Canada contribute?

12:15 p.m.

Team Leader, Coordination and Response Division, United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs

Quentin Levet

May I continue in French?

12:15 p.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Yes.

12:15 p.m.

Team Leader, Coordination and Response Division, United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs

Quentin Levet

Thank you very much.

I have been in the humanitarian field for more than 10 years. I have always considered Canada a leading player, constantly mobilizing resources to respond to humanitarian crises all over the world. I believe Canada was Mali's fourth largest donor before the crisis.

The current situation requires emergency support in the short term. As I explained earlier, that would help address not just the current needs flowing from the crisis, but also the longer term needs, particularly in terms of resilience. We want to put an end to the chronic cycle of urgent need we see every year. In a normal year, 230,000 children under the age of 5 die of malnutrition in the Sahel region.

I think Canada could play a prominent role, along with other donors. That involvement would make good on the support pledged by the international community and help tackle the humanitarian challenges, which could grow in complexity, especially from a security perspective.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Thank you very much.

I would just like to make a small clarification. Of the bilateral donors, Canada was second, but fourth out of the multilateral donors. I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis, in that it would be important to maintain that approach.

You also mentioned an issue of the utmost importance, the safety of the humanitarian workers on the ground, saying that money was desperately needed to ensure their safety.

Have you made any specific requests in that respect? How much money would you need?

12:20 p.m.

Team Leader, Coordination and Response Division, United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs

Quentin Levet

Thank you very much.

It goes without saying that access is crucial to humanitarian workers. And right now, that access relies heavily on the security conditions. Unfortunately the highly volatile situation in northern Mali has made it rather difficult to safely establish a presence with confidence. That is why support for the security structure is so vital. It will make it possible to provide a humanitarian response in the short and medium terms.

As you can imagine, we work very closely with UNDSS. And it turns out, unfortunately, that UNDSS requires significant funds to be able to do a timely analysis of the security situation. OCHA manages the secretariat of the UNDSS and has facilitated the current talks between UNDSS and CERF to discuss the needed funding.

So that piece still needs to be worked out. I know that the European Union is also very aware of the issue. So we will keep pushing in that direction. Of course, security needs are very much dependent on the deployment capacity of the agencies on the ground. And we are still working on that. A deployment plan is in place, but it's too early to say what the total cost will be.

I encourage Canada to monitor the situation closely. I would be delighted to provide you with more information in two or three days' time, via the Permanent Mission of Canada to the United Nations. I could give you a clearer idea of the amounts needed, as well as information on how you could help us maintain our presence in those conflict zones and carry out emergency humanitarian projects.