Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 24th, 2014

[Dr. Bessma Momani]

Okay. Just to point something out, Sweden has taken in 16,000 permanent residents. We can do a lot more than 1,600 in this great big country. We've only taken in 200. Now I do want to point out that if a Syrian applies when in Canada as a refugee for asylum, they've been very favourable to that, and the United States as well. But a new article in The New York Times just two days ago pointed out, you have to make your way to Tijuana or to Toronto or to any other point of entry and then claim refugee status. That's not the way to go. The way to go is to have a global resettlement plan and actually reunite people along the lines, I believe, of family reunification.

The Canadian Syrian community as I said before has its roots in this country from the 1800s, really very strong and part of the earliest settlers of Arab Canadians who came to this country, some others as well in New Brunswick. I think the history of that is really important.

The last 2006 census said that there were 35,000 Syrian Canadians. We know that's an underestimation. I can go into the reasons why that is, but we know there is a huge underestimation of that number based on some of the findings of organizations like the Canadian Arab Institute and others. We think there are about 100,000 Canadian Syrians, some of whom are third- to fourth-generation Canadian Syrians. Again, many of whom came, particularly in the 1990s, which was another big flow through the investor program, and bought small businesses. They're the ones who have the strongest ties but yet the deepest roots in Canada, if you will, in terms of balance. They have small organizations, have businesses such as convenience stores, etc., that again are in high demand for labour.

I think there's a really great opportunity here to make this feasible for all concerned. God knows, just having been out in B.C., there are plenty of foreign workers there in the service industry. This is a country that is very much bilingual and in some cases trilingual, speaking French as well. There is a lot of opportunity, I think, and we could absorb a lot more. Again Sweden beating us to having 16,000—to me, we could do so much more.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I can tell you from attending the meetings of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, the fact that Sweden has taken in so many is a source of national pride for them, quite frankly.

[Dr. Bessma Momani]

Absolutely.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Green, you talked about your organization as having a goal to build up the institutions that are now being torn apart and to be ready for the day after Assad. From what I'm hearing, we're a long way from any assurance that there's going to be a day after Assad, given what's happening on the ground. Where does that leave you, in the event of military success by the Assad regime and the principles that your organization stands for?

[Mark Green]

Let me say that if we're not careful, it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy, so if we fail to try to build democratic institutions, dialogue, and participation of women in particular at all levels of government, then we know we'll fail and we won't see a future for Syria. These are tough days. They are not good days. The suffering is immense. The number of refugees you were just talking about is only scratching the surface of what will happen in the years ahead. So we have no choice but to try to build up some semblance of governance in these outlying areas that provide some hope for people, especially for those who have been disenfranchised.

We know it is very difficult to do. It is difficult enough to do in the circumstances in which we find ourselves. It's even more difficult to do after the fact. So that's why we argued that this needs to be begun right away.

We are not arguing that investing in democratic institutions is the answer to the Syrian conflict. We're arguing that it is something that must take place if we're going to get to an answer in the long run. By itself it obviously won't solve all the problems, but if we're able to have some success in building some sense of governance and leadership, maybe then in the future there will be fewer refugees. We know what failing to invest in these programs will lead to, unfortunately.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I'll turn back to you, Ms. Momani. You talked about the impact of this conflict on the neighbouring countries and the number of people who have been driven into Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan. What is Canada doing and what should Canada, along with our allies or partners that share our socio-economic status in the world, be doing to support the neighbouring countries that have been so disproportionately affected by the displacement?

[Dr. Bessma Momani]

It's easy to say they need budget support, because clearly they are spending more. One can say invest in the infrastructure, because that's probably the thing that's most burdened. But that's also a challenge, because we don't know for how long and how many more Syrians are going to be coming. I do believe if you want to alleviate the pressure, you need to start moving some of those refugees to third parties. That is the best way to help the neighbours.

You cannot—

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

So we're back to the your first point.

[Dr. Bessma Momani]

I really do think so. If you want to do something good for the Zaatari camp, stop wasting money on.... I'm sorry, that's not the right word. It's money well spent, but if you really want to get your dollars' worth, get them here and get them out of the misery. Making an extra clinic or an extra something is just putting a Band-Aid on a horrible wound, on gangrene. You don't put a Band-Aid on gangrene; you do something about it. I think we need to be more proactive, because this is just not going away. It's not going away and Syria is not imploding; it's exploding. We can't change the regime. No one wants to change the regime. I understand the geopolitical dynamics of that, but we can do something about expediting the relief effort to bring those Syrians to this great country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Mr. Casey.

We're going to have a bit of a second round, beginning with Ms. Brown and finishing with the NDP.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Green, I'm really interested in the programs you are undertaking to build the capacity of women in Syria. I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about how you go about those programs. As a female parliamentarian, I am always interested in connecting with other women who are striving for a political career. Do you have any programs whereby you connect women in Syria with partners outside the country who can build into their lives just even through encouragement? I'd like to know.

[Mark Green]

You have just given a wonderful advertisement for what we're trying to do with our program. We have a Women's Democracy Network that is part of IRI and that is in many ways one of the most exciting programs we have.

And yes, we do: we try to build networks of women decision-makers. It's helpful in so many ways. Part of it is modelling and benchmarking. In societies where women have been nudged aside, ignored, or left out, being able to match them up with those who have become involved—whether it be getting involved in a campaign or actually running for office and serving in office—creates rising expectations and encourages more and more women to make their opinions known and to become more active, so we do.

Specifically with the Syrian Women's Network, we have actually matched up Syrian women with women in other countries to help in the negotiation process, taking on such issues as the detainees, so yes, it's an important part of the work we're doing, and we would love to have you as part of the Women's Democracy Network, because it is I think very promising.

One of the aspects of it that I am proudest of is our view that we shouldn't be turning to women simply for women's issues. That is patronizing in some ways, and of course it ignores the obvious. The reason we believe that women need to be involved is that it's the only way you can fully tap into the strength of your democracy. That's the basic premise of the Women's Democracy Network. In a place like Syria, and in that part of the world, we all have a long way to go, but we've also seen tremendous enthusiasm, progress, and promise when the work gets under way.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I think Mr. Anderson has a question.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Green, we heard from the Red Cross that 34 members of their community have been killed. Last week, I had a chance to meet with the Pakistani opposition leader, and they've had hundreds of their campaign workers killed. What are the danger spots for your people, where are they threatened, and how are you doing?

[Mark Green]

Well, the people who come to work with us, to be trained by us, and to reach out to work with our people take their lives into their own hands whenever they come for our training, so they're always putting themselves on the line. That's why we think it's so important to focus our efforts in those areas that are beyond the reach of the Assad regime and begin to make connections there, but it is a very dangerous business.

As I mentioned, some people think a democracy promotion organization can't work in a zone or a setting like Syria. What we've found is this tremendous pent-up demand and this tremendous enthusiasm. There is a moderate middle that is in many ways unrepresented and even lost. We think there is enthusiasm, but every time they get involved, sure, they're taking risks.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

He's going to cut me off here, but I'm just wondering what public institutions are left that you can work with in the country.

[Mark Green]

Well, it's local councils. It's council by council in each of those areas, so it's not a nationwide group; it's working on the local and the provincial level.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Mr. Dewar, sir.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Just to wrap things up, Ms. Momani, I wanted to ask you about Turkey. You mentioned it. Should we be providing support for Turkey? We haven't done any bilateral yet.

Second, in Lebanon we saw a coalition government come together after 10 or 12 months. It's caused some concern—I'm certainly concerned—about who's in the coalition and about the reluctance to abide by non-intervention clauses. I'm talking about Hezbollah. Can you touch on that? Do you have any comments on the coalition?

If there's any time, Mr. Green, could you comment as well?

[Dr. Bessma Momani]

I think the priority dollars still belong to Lebanon and to Jordan. Turkey, yes, is definitely a lot more challenged because of an enormous amount of capital outflow due to investors running away from the current political crisis, but I don't think it's nearly as acute. Their camps tend to be a lot better, by the way, and they have paid for a lot of it on their own. So one has to really commend the Turkish government for doing a lot. I still think Lebanon is abysmal. Lebanon is horrible.

The other issue that I think people don't want to talk about but is an enormous reality is the refugees inside Syria, in the Yarmouk camp—which is primarily Palestinian refugees who have been there from the 1948 war—they are basically forgotten. They're ignored by the UNHCR. They can't actually go to a UNHCR camp. Their jurisdiction is UNRWA but UNRWA is tapped out and has no funds for this crisis. So they're extremely vulnerable. They're the ones we're finding making their way, crossing borders, by some of the worst means to try and take a ship to Europe. They're the most vulnerable inside the country in fact, as well.

Can I respond to the Day After project? IDRC has a great project as well that they have funded. Many of them include a lot of great Syrian women leaders, including the Day After project. I know many of them as well that are funded by USAID.

Talking about institutions, citizen journalism has taken on a brand new form. It's phenomenal. The youth of that region have really taken on a lot of impressive roles. Civil society is still quite strong, ironically. So I do not worry about the day after; I worry about today.

The day after actually, and by that I mean after the fall of Assad, there are Syrians who are ready to kick in and do something about their country. They're highly educated. Women are more educated than their male counterparts. This is very much a society—like much of the Middle East—where there are more women educated than men. So again, they're ready. They just need the opportunity.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you to our guests. Thank you very much for being here today.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Chair, before we suspend, I just wanted to move the motion for the estimates, if I can do that before you gavel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Sure, before gavel.... Thank you very much.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Chair, there is a motion that we're now getting in front of us. I just wanted to move the motion and it's basically pro forma about having the Minister of Foreign Affairs appear before the committee regarding the supplementary estimates before March 6, and that's simply because of the deadlines on estimates. So I just wanted to move:

That the House of Commons Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development invite the Honourable John Baird, Minister of Foreign Affairs, to appear before the Committee regarding the Supplementary Estimates (C) 2013-2014 before March 6, 2014 and that this meeting be televised.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're going to need to get some time to talk about this then, so I'll have to carve out some time at the next meeting. Is that what we want to do?