Foreign Affairs Committee on Jan. 27th, 2015

[Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett]

Just to clarify, those were the 2013-14 numbers.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

That's correct. Sorry, I misspoke. That was 2013-14. I mean more currently.

[Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett]

Right. When the office came into existence in February 2013, as I reported to this committee before, we had to take some time to get the programming operations up and running. We had to develop the business process and a number of things, so we did lapse a good portion of our money for that fiscal year. This year we're pretty much on track to spend most of our allocated $4.25-million religious freedom fund. Obviously, we're finalizing a few projects towards the end of the year, so we certainly hope to have most of that money allocated.

Some of it is in multi-year projects, so some of that money will certainly be spent this year, but then there will also be some for subsequent years. The minority rights group project in Iraq is included in that.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Where are they out of, by the way? I just want to clarify where they are centred.

[Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett]

I'd have to get back to you on that. I can't remember off the top of my head.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay. I note that we used to have a very robust institution, Rights and Democracy, who used to do that work from here. I'm just curious, because you mentioned the Tony Blair foundation and I'm not as au courant on what they're doing; I would like to know what this group is doing.

But perhaps you could pass that on to us, because I think I've run out of time.

[Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett]

Yes, we'd certainly be happy to do that. I'd be happy to talk to you.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I'll let Mr. Schellenberger go ahead.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Schellenberger.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you very much to our witnesses.

There have been reports of religious taxes being put in place in some ISIL-controlled areas. Can you elaborate on these taxes?

[Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett]

Certainly. These reports were coming out very early on as ISIL advanced through Iraq and into Syria. It was a tax that would be imposed on Christians, Yazidis, and other minorities. There were basically three options for people in minority groups, for Christians, Yazidis, Mandaeans, and so forth: convert to Islam, pay a tax, or die. It was a very blunt option for these communities. As we know, many people paid with their lives through very horrific torture and horrific deaths at the hands of ISIL. Others fled. The Yazidis, as we know, fled up into the Sinjar Mountains. Christians fled up into the KRG region. They fled to join already existing diaspora communities in countries such as Syria initially, but then certainly into Lebanon and Jordan.

It comes down to this question: will I remain loyal to my faith? Certainly in the international understanding of religious freedom there's the freedom, obviously, to practise your faith and the freedom to be free from coercion to change your faith. Conversion has to be a free act of free will.

So yes, there was a tax that ISIL was imposing on those members of religious minority communities who had refused to convert, but often it was a question of dying rather than paying a tax.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

What effect is this religious persecution having on countries that neighbour ISIL-controlled territories?

[Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett]

Perhaps you could elaborate a little bit.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

When the refugees leave and go to various other countries, whether it be Turkey or Lebanon or wherever, is it impacting the religious freedom in those areas?

[Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett]

The religious freedom picture in the region is quite varied. Certainly countries such as Jordan and Lebanon, as I've indicated, have a very high degree of religious freedom, a very high degree of tolerance. These countries have welcomed large numbers of members of religious minority communities.

Again, we would encourage you to consult our colleagues at CIC on this, but certainly from the reports I have through the Office of Religious Freedom, these minority communities have been welcomed and have been accommodated for in those countries of proximate migration. Now, there is a great need; it's obviously putting a strain on the resources of both Jordan and Lebanon. That's why some of the programming that we hope to do through the office will be through such partners as the Mennonite Central Committee, as I mentioned, or the Catholic Near East Welfare Association and various groups that we've been consulting on an ongoing basis. Nothing has been finalized, but we continue to consult. We hope to provide some assistance with these displaced minority communities to ensure that they can continue to maintain their religious practices and to live out in these countries of migration.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I've also been told that various Christians have gone to Iran. I don't know how welcome they are in Iran, but apparently they're not persecuted in Iran; it's only those who convert in Iran. Is that correct?

[Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett]

I could certainly look into that issue for you. I'm not aware of significant numbers, or even smaller numbers, of Christians fleeing into Iran to escape the situation with ISIL in Iraq. But certainly Iran has one of the worst records in the world in terms of religious persecution, and certainly Christians suffer greatly, along with Baha'is and Zoroastrians and Shia Muslims who don't accept the Iranian regime's ideology.

I'm not aware of any significant groups, but I'm happy to look into that for the committee and for you, Mr. Schellenberger.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Schellenberger.

We're going to finish up with Mr. Scarpaleggia, please.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Very briefly, we hear a lot about the need for Canada and other countries to help strengthen or shore up Iraq's political institutions. I'm just wondering if you could shed a bit of light on how we can contribute to that process.

I believe that way back Bob Rae advised Iraq on its new constitution. I could be wrong, but I believe the constitution is still in place and operational. What other measures or steps could Canada take to strengthen Iraq's political institutions?

[Mark Gwozdecky]

I can say that Canada and Canadians have been involved in that regard for some time. The one action that I'm most aware of comes through an Ottawa-based group called the Institute on Governance, which had for many years, even ongoing now, a contract with the UNDP to support the Iraqi government's efforts to understand and to implement federalism along the lines that we do in Canada. Under that program, the institute brought several study groups of senior Iraqi officials to Canada to learn about our model of federalism. There's tremendous interest in it.

I used to often joke to people. I'd say, “Answer this question: a country of about 30 million, multi-ethnic, multi-religious, with a very strong energy-based economy, and a region or more that are aspiring to autonomy, which country would you say that is?” It applies to both Canada and Iraq. They feel like they have a lot to learn from us, and they have indeed, under this program, benefited greatly.

There are other interventions being considered, but that's the one that I think would be the flagship at the moment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thanks to our witnesses from the Department of Foreign Affairs. Thank you very much for your time this morning.

I'm going to suspend the meeting so that we can go in camera and clear the room. Once again, thank you very much.

[Proceedings continue in camera]