Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2013

[Mark Gwozdecky]

I'm going to start with the last point first. We are extremely concerned about money being diverted to the wrong places and the wrong forces, so there is an incredible amount of scrutiny of every possible project that we consider and everything that would go up for approval.

I think that in part explains why there has not been more Canadian assistance provided to these groups. It's very difficult to find those and it's very difficult to demonstrate, because we're not on the ground and we don't have eyes and ears on the ground. It's difficult to demonstrate to yourself that you have a high degree of assurance that there's no diversion.

As to foreign fighters, there isn't a lot I can share with you other than to say it's a big concern, not just for Canada but for our allies as well. We know there are Canadians who get on planes and find their way into Syria. We know that some of them are engaged with the opposition, and some of those are engaged with the more extremist elements of the opposition. We're trying to work with our partners, intelligence agencies, and security agencies in the neighbouring countries to identify them.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I'd like you to continue, but I want to ask you about yesterday, when we saw the Syrian opposition offering to join with the government to battle some of these groups.

Do you have a comment on that?

[Mark Gwozdecky]

We've seen these kinds of statements before. We haven't seen a concerted effort on the ground that would suggest this is taking place, and that would suggest almost a three-front war. We've seen occasional clashes, and I mentioned that in my statement, but to date, it looks like those clashes are less ideological, in the sense of a concerted attempt to go after the extremists, and more about opposition groups staking their claim over their territory.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Are you willing to talk about funding for some of these outside groups?

[Mark Gwozdecky]

I can talk a bit about it, but I can't talk more than that because, in part, we don't know, and in part, some of what we might say would be classified.

There are two different streams. There's funding going to, let's say, the Muslim Brotherhood type of groups from places like Qatar. There's other funding going to other forms of Islamists from countries like Saudi Arabia. Now, it's very difficult to determine from where that money is coming because those countries are not publicly acknowledging these flows.

Also, it's very important to note that money comes from non-state sources, and there are wealthy individuals who choose, by their own decision, to lend support, and those are very difficult to track.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're going to finish the first round with Mr. Garneau, for seven minutes, please.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Gwozdecky, you said Canada continues to believe the only way to end the crisis in Syria is through a Syrian-led political transition leading to the emergence of a free and democratic and pluralist Syria.

Has Canada said whether it also insists on Assad’s leaving the leadership of the country, or have we not taken a position there?

[Mark Gwozdecky]

Mr. Baird has stated clearly that Assad has lost his legitimacy, that Assad should be held accountable for the crimes he's committed, including the use of chemical weapons. However, ultimately, I think our position would be that parties around the table are going to need to define their future, and that future, as far as we would like to see, must include protections for the various minorities in the country that form a rather spectacularly interesting society, very diverse, very multi-ethnic, multi-religious. We want to see that protected inside a secular and democratic next government.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Okay.

The Geneva II conference that is planned for the 22nd of January, are there rules on how the opposition, because there are so many factions...is it up to them to somehow come together and decide who's going to speak for that side of the table? It strikes me as being a bit of a Tower of Babel here.

Is there any hope that the opposition will somehow coordinate to be there, or are they all insisting they each have a right to be at the table?

[Mark Gwozdecky]

Well, you're pointing at some of the complexity around this particular conference.

In short, I could say that we're not yet there. The major players, the Russians, the Americans, and the UN, are working very intensely to try to bring that about. Now, we have problems on both sides. We have problems in the regime’s staking out positions, including the fact that Assad would remain in a transition. That is not acceptable to the opposition.

You have some in the opposition effectively saying that the purpose of Geneva would be not to negotiate but to simply hand over power from the regime to the opposition. That's also on the extreme end of the spectrum.

The parties are trying to narrow down those differences, trying to, in particular, bring the opposition together around key principles. I'm not sure they're there yet, but we're not privy to the private consultations taking place at the moment.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Presumably there was a Geneva I conference. Was this at a simpler time, when there weren't so many factions?

[Mark Gwozdecky]

Yes, indeed.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Okay, so it was essentially the regime versus the Syrian opposition.

[Mark Gwozdecky]

Its principal outcome was a set of agreed-to principles to guide these future rounds. So far, those principles are meant to be the price of admission to this next round. At a minimum, parties around the table, be they Syrian or be they international partners, would have to agree to these basic principles as the price of admission.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

I'd like to turn to refugees. How many refugees have been accepted by Canada? How many are under way through sponsorship from families or organizations?

[Mark Gwozdecky]

We have not set up a resettlement program for Syrian refugees. This is in large part at the request of neighbouring countries and the UN itself, which doesn't want to set up a dynamic where Syrians will find themselves incentivized to leave the country.

Syria needs to be rebuilt by Syrians. Most Syrians who are in refugee camps in the bordering states want to return. To my knowledge, there is no—

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

There is no government plan, but what about on the sponsorship side? The government said it would accept a certain number. What has happened there so far?

[Mark Gwozdecky]

I don't have that number, but I think it's a small number. I wouldn't want to mislead you by guessing, but we can get you that information.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

I'd like to know where we are on that, because I think the government agreed to.... What was the exact figure?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

It was 1,200.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you. Yes, I think it was 1,200.

But you're saying it's a small number, so not much has—

[Mark Gwozdecky]

It's a small number by comparison with our biggest resettlement program in the world, which is for Iraqi refugees in Syria. That is upwards of 20,000. That program is pushing towards completion. So by comparison, 1,200 is what I would characterize as a small number.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Okay.

The humanitarian aid of up to $200 million which the government has...and we've said that's great. Trace how that money gets to the refugee. Do you have organizations on the ground who come to you and say, “Give us some, give us some”, and you have to make some kind of decision about whom it goes to?

How does it make its way to the refugees? I'm interested in that chain.

[Stephen Salewicz]

On a refugee issue, UNHCR is legally mandated, has the international mandate, to respond to refugee crises like this. They are one of our main partners, but we look at a range of partners that have expertise in these kinds of situations and that are tried and tested over time.

Within the UN family, we have the WFP, to which we have provided $50 million in food aid. Food aid is one of the main components of the response. UNHCR has received upwards of $27 million from us this current calendar year.

Perhaps I could walk you through the types of services they provide. I'm sure that you, having been in Jordan, have witnessed the support that Syrian refugees received in Jordan. I'm happy to share the response with you. The UNHCR will come in and register all refugees. They have a registration process. They will have a case management approach where they look at the requirements of each refugee and his or her family to determine how best to respond to them, looking at vulnerability criteria, for instance, to determine what is required, for example, education, food, income support, and those types of things. We take a social safety net approach to try to ensure that an adequate response is being shared with them.

There will also be a series of other local community groups, international NGOs, and the Red Cross. It's a concerted effort. Given the scope of the crisis and the fast pace of the crisis, we have actually broadened our support. Typically we look towards the UNHCR as our focal point for these kinds of responses.

In this case, because it was such a fast pace and the scope was so great, we had to broaden our support to a range of international NGOs, such as Save the Children, World Vision, CARE Canada, and Handicap International. They bring certain capacities to bear, certain special capacities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Mr. Garneau, that's all the time we have.

We will start our second round. I believe Ms. Brown is going to share her time with Mr. Komarnicki.