Evidence of meeting #107 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inuit.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Chair  Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)
Cindy Dickson  Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council
Charlie Watt  President, Makivik Corporation
Robin Campbell  Associate, Hutchins Legal Inc.
Leona Alleslev  Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC
Frank Baylis  Pierrefonds—Dollard, Lib.

September 26th, 2018 / 3:30 p.m.

The Chair Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)

I call the meeting to order.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the 107th meeting of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

We're going to be hearing from two witnesses today, after which we're going to be doing some committee business.

I want to welcome Daniel Blaikie to the committee. He's filling in for Hélène Laverdière.

Ms. Dickson, you're going to be the first witness today. Ms. Dickson is the executive director of the Arctic Athabaskan Council.

Whenever you're ready, Ms. Dickson, please begin your testimony.

3:30 p.m.

Cindy Dickson Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council

Thank you. I will begin by giving a short background history of myself and the AAC. I will then provide you with a little bit of information on some of the work of the AAC and the connections to our community and the circumpolar regions.

I come from a small community in the northern regions of Yukon Territory. I was raised by my grandfather, Lazarus Charlie, in Old Crow, Yukon. Our community has been quite isolated. To this day, it is isolated. We are a fly-in only community.

When I was growing up, we were raised without any type of plumbing or running water, and the main staple of our diet was the Porcupine caribou herd. We had that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It provided our clothing. My grandfather was born and raised out on the land, and he worked with archaeologists for many years, helping them to understand the region in Old Crow.

I began my work with the Arctic Council back in 1999. At that time, I worked for a program called the northern contaminants program in Whitehorse. We would be provided the opportunity to attend some meetings of the Arctic monitoring assessment program, which is a working group of the Arctic Council. Basically, that's how we got started with the Arctic Council work here in Canada.

Over the years, we have really tried to connect our communities to the work of the Arctic Council through the working groups. It's been quite a long learning process for us. Our communities are very small and they have to deal with many issues.

One of the highlights of doing this type of work is being able to connect our communities with other circumpolar communities that have similar issues and stories. They have projects they share with us, and the results. Sometimes we try to emulate and connect with these different projects in various regions.

One of the first permanent participants of the Arctic Council to which we did connect was RAIPON. RAIPON is situated in Moscow. There are over 30 indigenous peoples that are part of RAIPON.

When we first made a connection, we were invited to one of their congresses. We brought some of our leaders to Moscow. For many of them, it was the first time they had travelled outside of their region. It really opened our eyes to the importance of making these connections and trying to do work in light of all the changes that are taking place in our region, like climate change.

There's a lot of in-migration of people from different parts of Canada and the world. We see new species coming into our regions, and everything seems to be going a lot faster, yet we are not quite keeping up with some of the changes.

3:30 p.m.

Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)

The Chair

I just want to make sure you can still hear us.

3:30 p.m.

Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council

Cindy Dickson

Yes, I can still hear you.

3:30 p.m.

Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)

The Chair

Okay, please keep going.

3:30 p.m.

Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council

Cindy Dickson

Early on in our work we did have the opportunity to have some exchanges back and forth with RAIPON and with members of the Arctic Athabaskan Council. One of the highlights was working on an exchange between hunters and herders. Part of the reason we did this is that we were doing some work on IPY, the International Polar Year, and in our region one of the biggest issues is caribou. Our people wanted to know a little bit more about herding and the pros and cons of herding.

We shared some of the information back and forth between our people and got a broader and better understanding of why things are the way they are. I think at some point in the future that might be a possibility for us as the caribou numbers begin to go down because of climate change and because their migration routes might be changing, so we looked for solutions within our circumpolar neighbourhood.

In our region our people have always had lower levels of education, and our elders have always taught us that education is very important and that we need to continue moving forward. We have a lot more graduates, but at the same time it's still a struggle. I think, looking at different examples around the circumpolar region, that in Russia and in the Scandinavian countries we see higher levels of indigenous peoples with high levels of education.

We are members of the University of the Arctic. We try to make those connections between our educators, and that has been very helpful with regard to continuing outreach within the circumpolar world on Arctic Council issues.

We have brought people into our region to talk about the Convention on the Law of the Sea. Although our people are not right on the coast, we see future possibilities for becoming more involved with some of the studies to provide information to our people about what is going on in that region. Sometimes it's quite unbelievable to smaller communities to know that there are discussions and decisions being made in the region. To us it seems that there are very limited opportunities, but we know that with the changing climate, all of this is changing, so we reach out to some of our neighbours within our own area to discuss these issues.

One of our members in northern Canada did say that in comparison to some regions, the populations in our region are quite small. How would we deal with disaster situations if something were to happen on our coast within reach of these smaller communities? How are we prepared?

We participated in some preparation exercises with search and rescue mock-ups. We brought communities together, our indigenous communities, to see what some of the issues might be.

Connecting all of this is the fact that other countries might be interested in the Arctic. We hear a bit about climate refugees. We hear about illegal substances that might be moving through Arctic waters and coming inland, and our people are not equipped to deal with such large issues. I've had the opportunity to attend a couple of meetings in Halifax. One was an Arctic security forum. They mentioned that in the north we have our Rangers, but our Rangers are not equipped to deal with such issues.

What we have noticed is that there has been some discussion about the Chinese “silk road”. We see an influx of companies moving into Canada or partnering with Canada or others around the circumpolar world. China is expanding, and our people still have concerns about some of the human rights issues they see on the news, yet we do have a large, growing Chinese community here in the Yukon.

We welcome them. We learn. Their cultures are quite similar to ours if you go back to their ancient history. Our people have never been one to leave others out.

However, at the same time we notice there's a huge influx of people into our regions. Maybe one of the future discussions we would need to have is around migration, in order to understand it better, to have more of an understanding of how many people are moving into the northern regions as opposed to southern Canada.

The reason, in part, is that our community members don't always see or don't look at personal property. When we're in a community, we have our land claims here in Canada, so everything is owned by everyone, including the land. When you come to more southern, urban areas, such as Whitehorse, all of a sudden you need to buy land. A lot of property is being bought by people from even outside of Canada. A lot of other people are moving in from other countries.

Just for the future, knowing that there's an increase globally in population, we need to look at these areas.

Working within the Arctic Council, I see the need for more information coming north. There's a need for some of these issues to be brought forward to our people. We need more information, better education, more research directed to international or circumpolar communities, and we need to have community-based opportunities to participate.

Education, I think, is going to be quite important, as well as dissemination of information to our communities. Right now we have limited possibility at the Arctic Council level. The Arctic Council does put out newsletters and it has a website, but there's still nothing better than having meetings or workshops in the north at our community levels to talk about some of these issues, to bring forth any future issues that experts are saying may come to pass.

One of the key areas for our people is the caribou herds. We see a lot of the numbers going down. The Porcupine caribou herd is still quite stable at the highest level it has ever been at, but the migration patterns are changing, which leads to food security issues in our communities. We do hear the same from some of the herders we have contact with—

3:45 p.m.

Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)

The Chair

Ms. Dickson, I'm wondering if you could maybe take another minute or so just to conclude. I want to make sure we leave plenty of time for members to ask you questions, because I know they're going to have many. If you could maybe just wrap up testimony, we'll get into the question phase.

3:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council

Cindy Dickson

All right.

Just to wrap up, I think education is quite important, as well as research, more circumpolar opportunities for our communities, and food security. Also, I would just really stress the importance of coming into our communities to have these discussions.

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)

The Chair

Thank you very much. We're going to be heading up north next week as a committee, and hearing from you was a great introduction.

Let's go straight into questions. We're going to begin with MP O'Toole, please.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Thank you very much for participating in this meeting. We appreciate your making the time. I'm sorry about some of the technical difficulties you have to work under.

I found a lot of your discussion quite interesting, particularly your discussion of the Arctic Council and the work with indigenous communities in Russia and Scandinavia. You mentioned people from your organization travelling to Moscow to go to its convention. I'm wondering if, from the viewpoint of remote communities in our north and from those interactions through the council, we have been able to take back ideas, learnings, and economic development opportunities that we've seen be successful in other polar regions in those countries.

3:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council

Cindy Dickson

I think there's been quite a lot of discussion about economic opportunities with our Russian counterparts, as well as those within Scandinavia. There were some good exchanges between our communities, and great ideas. We were able to look at minerals and at forestry, and we were able to discuss micro-businesses between our communities, the possibility that at some point we'd be able to get some of our homemade crafts to these other markets in Russia or in Scandinavia, and vice versa. There was a lot of sharing of artistic abilities. We looked at some of the really great industries in Scandinavia around home-based products.

I think there was a lot of really good exchange of information, but the next step is how to do that. We're not quite sure. That is the next area that we really need to focus on, because micro-businesses are much different from large-scale businesses.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

You also mentioned that some of the Scandinavian indigenous communities have, I think you said, a better track record with respect to education and a number of things like that.

Is there any specific reason? Is there more of a role for government in terms of support for young people in isolated communities? What can we learn from their success in that area?

3:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council

Cindy Dickson

Well, it is my understanding that in Scandinavia and in Russia, their higher education institutes are free. People are able to go to universities, and in Scandinavia— [Technical difficulty—Editor]

3:50 p.m.

Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)

The Chair

Sorry about that, Ms. Dickson. We'll just....

I think we're okay again. We apologize for that.

3:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council

Cindy Dickson

It's still beeping here.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

I mention Russia, and things get crossed up.

3:50 p.m.

Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)

The Chair

We're back on. You have my apologies.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

I have a few minutes left.

You had mentioned some of the differences: better access, free tuition, these sorts of things. My final question is on the education piece.

I particularly appreciated your talking about your personal background in a remote fly-in community and being raised by your grandfather.

For education, whether it's through the University of the Arctic or elsewhere, for those who access it, is there a problem with people going south for education and then not returning north? Is that something you see as a phenomenon, and then that in itself is perhaps a barrier to education because of families not wanting to lose children and family to the south? Is that a real dynamic? I've heard that before, and I'm wondering if there are things we can do to reduce that.

3:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council

Cindy Dickson

I think it's a bit of both. Some students leave for the south; they want other opportunities. What I have also seen is people moving back north once they've had the experience of living and working elsewhere.

I think in the smaller communities, part of the issue is that in the lower-level grades, we have many students and we have one teacher. Sometimes they teach one, two, or three grades. Then you have to leave your community to go to high school in Whitehorse, and sometimes there are culture shock issues. There hasn't been a lot of support in the past.

On the education level, our institutions are lagging behind a bit. These are some of the challenges.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Do I have any time left?

3:50 p.m.

Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)

The Chair

No. Thank you very much.

We are now going to move straight to MP Saini.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Good afternoon, Ms. Dickson. It's a pleasure to have you on this committee.

I'm going to focus my questions on two areas: One is on health, and one is on the northern contaminants program, for which I know you were instrumental in writing the traditional knowledge guideline.

Given that the melting ice right now is leading to the opening of new maritime routes, obviously there's going to be a risk of contamination. What do you feel would be the ultimate impact of that, not only on contamination and the environment but also on your traditional food sources?

3:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council

Cindy Dickson

That's a good question.

With regard to health, I think one of the larger impacts in regard to the changing climate is not going to be contaminants per se; it's going to be the increase in precipitation. It's going to affect people who already have issues with their lungs and also small babies or elders. We are not used to a lot of precipitation in our area. Our air is very dry. I think that's a huge factor that we are starting to see.

With regard to the northern contaminants program, I think that program is still going on. It's quite a stellar program that connects the local people to international sources. In that program, they also provide the opportunities for our people to discuss any issues that might be moving forward. They have a very good education component whereby they disseminate the information so the communities can make informed choices. I think that's a good way to go. We work with federal health officials, researchers, and people at the community level, and together they make those decisions on where to focus.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

That leads into my second question. One thing I didn't realize is that the Arctic has a very efficient system of bioaccumulation and biomagnification of contaminants, which is something of a new phenomenon right now, as opposed to the past. Obviously that is having an impact on health.

I ask this for selfish reasons, because I'm a health care professional and I want to know more. You mentioned the dry climate, lungs, and precipitation. You have this system and you're saying that there's more precipitation, and obviously that will lead to more bioaccumulation. I know that you do a lot of work in testing fish in Little Fox Lake, I think, which I believe is in Yukon, where you're checking the bioaccumulation of contaminants. My question is, what impacts have you been seeing over the last several years that are different from what was present before?

3:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Arctic Athabaskan Council

Cindy Dickson

I can comment briefly.

Some of the impacts that are coming forward are increasing levels of certain contaminants in different areas. Right now, the concern is mercury, but we are still saying that there are more health benefits to eating our fish than not eating them. They're giving some recommendations for pregnant women and for younger children to not eat as much or to refrain from it.

We see more research and workshops giving out the information in our communities through that program. There is a study in Old Crow right now. They're going to be looking at different types of contamination, and they will be taking hair samples, which we've never done in the past, in looking more at mercury.