Evidence of meeting #91 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was case.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Heather Jeffrey  Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Emergency Management and Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
David Drake  Director General, Counter-Terrorism, Crime and Intelligence Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Commissioner James Malizia  Assistant Commissioner, National Security and Protective Policing, Federal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Robert Nault (Kenora, Lib.)) Liberal Bob Nault

I call the meeting to order.

Colleagues, I know we're running late and everybody's trying to get organized, but I think we should have respect for our witnesses who have been politely waiting for us.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing with our study of the provision of assistance to Canadians in difficulty abroad, better known as consular affairs.

Before us today, from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, is Heather Jeffrey. With her is David Drake, director general, counter-terrorism, crime and intelligence bureau.

As well, from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, we have James Malizia, assistant commissioner, national security and protective policing, federal policing.

Welcome to all of you, and again we offer our apologies. We can't do much about the way things are going in the House, but we can control this meeting.

With that, I'll turn the floor over to Ms. Jeffrey to begin her remarks, and then, colleagues, we'll get right into questions after that.

Go ahead, Ms. Jeffrey, please.

3:55 p.m.

Heather Jeffrey Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Emergency Management and Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for welcoming us back to this committee during your hearings on consular services. I'll start with a few remarks on the work of the consular team, to update you since we last met in October. Then I'll pass it on to my colleague David Drake, the director general of the counter-terrorism, crime and intelligence bureau of Global Affairs, followed by James Malizia, assistant commissioner for national security and protective policing at the RCMP.

Since our last appearance, we've seen a continued increase in the number of new consular cases abroad. While the nature and breakdown of cases has remained stable, the total number of new consular cases opened in 2017 was 4% higher than that of 2016, an increase of over 11,000 cases.

The program remains committed to the process of consular modernization to meet the increasing demand. For example, we have conducted public opinion research with Canadian travellers to better understand their preparations for travel, what information they need and their expectations when it comes to consular services. While we are waiting on the full results, it is clear that Canadians continue to expect high standards of service that should be available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Since we last met, we have continued to invest in training, including conducting introductory training courses for our new, dedicated consular officers abroad. We've delivered courses on mental illness and consular services, in response to trends we've seen, to approximately 80 consular officers at locations around the world, and we've ensured that our mid-career consular officers across Africa have participated in advanced training, including on arrest and detention issues. These initiatives help to maintain and reinforce the professionalism of our dedicated consular service, which is a separate stream of the foreign service category.

In rising to meet these expectations, we're going to rely in part on technology. Our Going Digital initiative will provide Canadians with the information that they need in real time through the mobile channels they are most comfortable using and will connect them ever more quickly to consular services when they need help.

We are improving assistance to Canadians with new services such as the digital Ask Travel initiative, which we discussed in October, and the Travel Smart app.

A new and improved case contact and emergency management system is also being rolled out by 2020. This more robust system will modernize our consular case record management system. It will facilitate the identification of consular trends and challenges and it will help us to better track service delivery to ensure continued consistency and high standards.

This investment in technology is just one part of the considerable resources that Global Affairs Canada is devoting to improving its ability to provide quality consular and emergency management services.

I should note in this regard that the cost of providing consular services continues to significantly exceed the revenues that are collected from the consular service fee. For example, in fiscal year 2016-17, the cost of consular services was $131 million, of which $105 million was collected through the consular services fee.

We will soon be conducting a regular review of our resourcing and costing methodology in order to update it and to continue to ensure effective, consistent levels of service and the appropriate allocation of our resources overseas.

Other aspects of our strategy are focused on international cooperation. Consular officials are meeting regularly with counterparts on a bilateral basis to resolve case-specific and systemic challenges and learn from best practices.

Additionally, our international work continues apace. Our hosting of the Secretariat of the Global Consular Forum means that we maintain excellent contacts with the consular services of over 40 countries, not only traditional like-minded allies but also new emerging partners. These initiatives are helping to facilitate our co-operation on consular matters and have resulted in new partnerships with direct benefit to Canadians, including, for example, targeted discussions this year on issues such as dual nationality, services to children, and other emerging challenges.

On the communications front, we're continuing to look at new ways to reach more Canadians. Every year the consular outreach team travels across Canada to meet travelling Canadians and travel industry representatives at industry events, fairs, and conferences, and they are also surveying arrivals at major airports. The team promotes timely travel advice, the importance of travel insurance, the Registration of Canadians Abroad service and its benefits, and key publications with relevant travel information on specific issues.

We are also reaching out to Canadians through public information campaigns, such as our recent spring break campaign, which included a technical briefing for the media, specific web pages, and a strong push on social media in an effort to highlight some of the key ways Canadians can ensure their own safety and security while travelling. We will shortly be launching a similar campaign that takes place annually in advance of hurricane season.

Finally, we'd like to thank the committee for its attention to consular services. We very much look forward to the results of this study, which will further contribute to the development of our consular modernization strategy.

I will be happy to respond to further questions after my colleagues have a chance to deliver their own opening remarks.

Thank you.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bob Nault

Mr. Drake, you're next.

March 27th, 2018 / 4 p.m.

David Drake Director General, Counter-Terrorism, Crime and Intelligence Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Good afternoon.

Thank you for the invitation to appear before the committee.

My name is David Drake, and I am the Director General of Global Affairs Canada's Counter-Terrorism, Crime and Intelligence Bureau. I have had direct responsibility for and operational oversight of the Global Affairs Canada's response to terrorist hostage takings involving Canadian citizens since 2014.

My understanding is that the committee is seeking further information on interdepartmental coordination on hostage takings. As such, in my remarks today, I will speak to the Government of Canada's hostage response structure and Global Affairs Canada's role in supporting hostage families. I will then turn to my esteemed colleague Assistant Commissioner James Malizia from the RCMP, an agency with which Global Affairs Canada works exceptionally closely on these matters.

I will make every effort to be as open as possible and answer your questions fully. However, cabinet confidence and classification of information may restrict what I am able to share. More critically, I cannot reveal any information that could jeopardize current and future efforts and put the lives of future hostages and others at risk.

I can share with considerable relief that as of a short while ago, for the first time since 2007, we are not currently managing any active terrorist hostage case. This, of course, could change at any moment.

Hostage-taking is a tactic of choice of terrorist groups and individuals seeking to raise funds or to obtain concessions from governments. Incidents are common in states where authorities do not have effective control or capabilities and in conflict zones.

Most Canadians kidnapped abroad are victims of organized or individual crimes, or in some instances may be unlawfully detained by security authorities or militias in circumstances that resemble a hostage situation.

Generally these cases are managed by my colleagues in the consular branch in Global Affairs Canada, which is managed by Ms. Jeffrey. Terrorist hostage cases, however, are managed by a highly specialized unit in the department under my responsibility. You can imagine, of course, that we work very closely together.

This division of labour reflects the fact that terrorist hostage takings require a different toolkit, as well as specialized expertise and skills because of their national security implications.

Of course, the distinction between criminal and terrorist is not always so clear cut. There are elements of terrorist hostage takings that require distinct support from consular, and there are some consular cases that require the specialization of the critical incidents team.

National security implications or not, the Government of Canada treats the safety and security of all Canadians as a matter of fundamental importance.

Since 2005, the Government of Canada has responded to over 20 cases that qualify as terrorist hostage cases, either because a terrorist entity claimed responsibility or a Canadian citizen was taken hostage in an area where the sale or trade to a terrorist group appeared imminent.

For a terrorist hostage case, Global Affairs Canada coordinates the interdepartmental task force, the IDTF. This is a whole-of-government response that draws on the combined efforts of diplomatic, law enforcement, intelligence, and military spheres. This includes support from trained negotiators and investigators, as well as intelligence-gathering and assessment. Canada's approach to the management of these cases tracks very closely with our closest allies and partners, who also employ whole-of-government hostage response structures.

The primary responsibility for the response to a hostage case lies with the country in which they are taken hostage. This is often forgotten. In this case, Canada works closely with foreign authorities and allies at every level to free Canadians and bring them home. As such, the Government of Canada's response includes significant diplomatic efforts.

Family engagement remains an essential part of our response to these situations. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police and Global Affairs Canada provide advice and support to hostage families over the course of the case, mindful of Canadian law and Canada's international legal obligations.

A hostage-taking is a horrible and unimaginable ordeal for families and loved ones. Our family support officials strive to work as closely as they can with families to assist them during these trying ordeals. The RCMP's role in this regard will be addressed by my colleague, Assistant Commissioner Malizia.

The Government of Canada constantly reviews its practices and procedures in complex cases such as these with an eye to identifying areas for improvement.

Recent efforts have included interviews with family members who received direct support from officials during a case, as well as consultations with close international partners and other experts on best practices in supporting hostage families.

Hostage-takings are enormously complex. All are unique and therefore require highly varied responses. Nevertheless, we study each case in great detail to better understand the particularities and the commonalities. We compare and discuss cases with our counterpart hostage response structures in like-minded countries, and we meet and seek feedback from hostage families. Through these activities we continuously add to our best practices. The Government of Canada is actively applying these lessons learned.

I'll stop there and now turn the floor to my colleague, Assistant Commissioner James Malizia.

Thank you.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bob Nault

Thank you.

Assistant Commissioner Malizia, please go ahead.

4:05 p.m.

Assistant Commissioner James Malizia Assistant Commissioner, National Security and Protective Policing, Federal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Mr. Chair, thank you for the invitation to appear before this committee on this important study.

I will focus my comments today on the role of the RCMP internationally, including coordination with relevant government departments in providing assistance to Canadians who find themselves in difficulty abroad. I will also briefly touch on our unique role with regard to high-risk travellers.

Let me start by providing you with an overview of our international footprint.

The RCMP has a broad and varied international presence, and is called upon to deal with situations that run the gambit from Canadians who have been arrested or detained abroad to more complex cases like Canadians kidnapped by terrorist organizations.

Supporting domestic and international criminal investigations, participating in international peacekeeping operations and capacity building, and working within the information sharing networks of INTERPOL and EUROPOL and, where appropriate, aiding Canadians abroad are all components of the RCMP's international policing program.

Underpinning this broad mandate, the fundamental objective of the RCMP is to combat global criminal activity and to provide for the safety and security of Canadians, including those located globally.

Fostering a robust international presence provides the RCMP with an invaluable means to advance Canada's policing interests by maintaining strong collaborative relationships with law enforcement agencies and organizations around the world. The RCMP has access to a global support network, which it can mobilize in urgent situations. For instance, in locations where the RCMP has less-established relationships, we can leverage the resources of our Five Eyes partners and other like-minded countries to expand our reach and influence.

As of March 2018, 39 liaison officers, four regional manager liaison officers, and 12 criminal intelligence analysts were posted to 26 strategic international locations. Our international footprint, global partnerships, and influence, however, fuel the belief that the RCMP has the ability to investigate crimes or assist Canadians in other countries without restrictions. This is simply not the case. Some key limitations to operating internationally include the fact that the RCMP has no jurisdiction to conduct investigations in a foreign country without the consent of the host country, and that the Criminal Code only allows for certain offences that have been committed abroad to be prosecuted in Canada.

However, once foreign jurisdictions consent, investigations are undertaken by the RCMP and conducted in co-operation with local authorities, and the gathering of evidence would be consistent with the Canadian law and charter standards.

I want to now focus on a couple of areas in which the RCMP has significant involvement. I will touch on the work that the RCMP undertakes in relation to internationally abducted and missing children and then turn your attention to the kidnapping of Canadians abroad by terrorist groups. In all of those situations, we work closely with our Government of Canada partners to ensure an effective whole-of-government approach.

The RCMP's National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains becomes involved when an abduction has or may have crossed national borders, and assists and coordinates in missing children cases. It also investigates child abduction cases, where it assists and supports Canadian law enforcement agencies.

Federal-level coordination is undertaken in the case of internationally abducted children. Once a criminal investigation is initiated, we work closely with foreign law enforcement agencies, as well as with our Canadian partners to identify, intercept and recover missing and abducted children.

Parental abduction is a criminal offence in Canada whether or not there is a custody agreement in place. The National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains assists investigations in an effort to return missing children to their parent or legal guardian. The centre plays a key role in international parental abductions through its links to all Canadian and U.S. police agencies and to most foreign law enforcement. Additionally, the centre has developed strong partnerships domestically and internationally with non-law enforcement entities, such as the Canadian Centre for Child Protection and the Missing Children Society of Canada.

Turning now to the issue of Canadians kidnapped for ransom, in conjunction with our Government of Canada partners the RCMP plays a role in responding to Canadians taken hostage abroad by terrorist organizations. Our primary goal in these investigations is to ensure the safe release of Canadian hostages. The RCMP must also gather and document evidence that would permit, whenever possible, the laying of charges and the successful prosecution of the perpetrators. The Criminal Code gives Canadian courts the jurisdiction to try certain criminal acts, such as terrorism and hostage-taking, that occur beyond our borders. These investigations are some of the most complex, lengthy, and resource-intensive that we conduct.

Hostage takings often occur in high-risk areas and in countries with questionable human rights records. As I have mentioned, the RCMP is dependent on the host country and must adhere to their legal requirements. We do this while trying to ensure the release of hostages and to gather necessary evidence that could be eventually utilized in a Canadian prosecution.

While these types of investigations may be challenging for the RCMP, they are nothing compared to the long-term difficulties faced by the families and victims of terrorist hostage-takings. In concert with Global Affairs Canada, the RCMP provides as much support as possible to the victims of these crimes through family liaison officers. Their role is to keep families as well informed as possible on the situation, and on the Government of Canada's efforts to secure the release of their loved ones.

Family liaison officers and investigators also assist the families of victims through various investigative strategies, including, but not limited to, the collection of evidence that may be needed to advance the investigation and support an eventual prosecution. The efforts of the family liaison officers continue long after the resolution of the hostage-taking, as the victims and their families may also be called to relive their experiences before the courts.

Despite these challenges, we have had successes. You have heard from Ms. Lindhout herself about her terrible ordeal at the hands of her kidnappers. Our undercover operation, which lasted five years, resulted in the arrest, trial, and conviction of Ali Omar Ader for her hostage-taking.

I mention this case because it demonstrates that the RCMP can bring perpetrators of extraterritorial crimes to face justice in Canada. Our efforts may take years, perhaps decades, but our commitment is long term.

I also mention this case because, while the outcome was ultimately successful, there were lessons to be learned. We have recognized this and are taking these lessons to heart. By drawing from this experience and from the lessons gleaned from each hostage-taking incident that the Government of Canada has been involved in responding to, the RCMP strives to improve our efforts in the future.

I would also like to highlight briefly another area where the RCMP becomes significantly involved with Canadians abroad. In this case, however, it pertains to individuals who have travelled abroad to engage in terrorist activities. The RCMP has a dual role in both investigating and repatriating these individuals, known as high-risk travellers.

Leaving Canada to participate in the activity of a terrorist group is an offence under Canadian law. It is also an offence for any Canadian citizen or permanent resident to commit an act outside of Canada that would be considered a terrorism offence if committed in Canada. Therefore, investigations of a high-risk traveller's activities continue throughout their period abroad. We do this in order to collect the necessary evidence to charge them, even in absentia, but also to understand just what threat they may pose to Canada and to Canadians should they decide to return.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees Canadians the right to return to Canada, despite what criminal activity they may have been involved in while abroad. However, repatriating citizens involved in terrorist activity can be challenging. For instance, they may no longer possess a valid passport, as it may have been revoked or destroyed in theatre. They may also be listed under the Secure Air Travel Act or the no-fly lists of our allies, which prevents them from boarding an airplane.

Therefore, Government of Canada partners work together to facilitate the repatriation of Canadians. The Managed Returns Committee, led by our Global Affairs Canada partners, helps us coordinate this collaborative effort by facilitating an interagency assessment of the risk a returnee may pose. Each individual case must be assessed and decisions made based on the evidence presented. This process allows us to collectively manage their return home and to assess and mitigate any threat they may pose during, and after, their repatriation.

The RCMP has a significant role to play throughout the process. For instance, we may deploy officers abroad and we may seek as well to take security measures in that regard.

Further, it's important to also note that not all returnees may continue to pose a threat. Some may now be disillusioned with the cause. In such cases, we will focus our investigative resources on those who continue to pose a threat, while leveraging countering radicalization to violence, or CRV, initiatives and our police of jurisdiction partners and community partners to work with those who may no longer be interested in violence.

Thank you for providing me an opportunity to speak to you today on this important subject. I look forward to your questions.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bob Nault

Thank you, Assistant Commissioner Malizia.

Now we're going to go to questions.

We'll start with Mr. O'Toole, please.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses today. This is an important study, and we appreciate your contributions.

Assistant Commissioner, as well, I'd like to thank you and your team for the successful outcome in the Lindhout case. It's quite remarkable that someone could be brought to justice for that horrible crime, so congratulations.

Building upon that, you said specifically in your remarks that limits to international operations often depend upon the consent of the country you need to operate in. That would have been the case in the Lindhout case, but does that consent include both conducting investigations or working with their officials or militaries on rescue missions?

4:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

The consent of the host country, if I can put it that way, is absolutely necessary for us to be able to deploy in-country and work with those other agencies.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

We've talked extensively about Prime Minister Trudeau's carte blanche approach to saying and urging other countries to not even negotiate in kidnapping situations, which is very different from the previous approach, which was just not commenting. Does the RCMP and/or the Canadian Armed Forces work collaboratively with military and paramilitary organizations with the consent of the host country?

4:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

We certainly will work with our law enforcement counterparts in-country to do everything that we can to ensure the safe release of a Canadian hostage. I don't know if there's anything the other partner agencies would like to comment on.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

No, I'd prefer to stick with you, Assistant Commissioner.

Was your department involved in the Philippines kidnapping of Mr. Hall and Mr. Ridsdel and their tragic demise? Was your team involved in that hostage-taking situation?

4:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

Yes, I can confirm my team was involved, but, as you can appreciate, we're not in a position to speak to specific cases here before the committee.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Certainly we know the outcome in that tragic case. Both lives were taken—

4:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

Yes, it's very tragic.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

—by Abu Sayyaf, a terror organization. I've been informed there were proposals for a rescue mission that were turned down by the Prime Minister's Office around the same time he was saying there would be no discussions and no payments. Can you confirm that?

4:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

Unfortunately, I can't comment on any specifics or operations on any kidnap case.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Fair enough. I won't put you under any additional pressure, but talking in generalities, leaving the Philippines case behind, your presentation suggested that the RCMP and other agencies could conduct investigations, even operations, with the consent of that country. Clearly that happened in the Lindhout case for the investigation and prosecution. Without naming specifics, have operational rescue missions been conducted with the consent of host countries?

4:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

I can't speak to rescue missions, because that would fall outside of the remit of the RCMP.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Would that be under the Canadian Armed Forces?

4:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

That would be more the Canadian Armed Forces.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Would the decision on whether to deploy such a rescue mission and the assets of the Canadian Armed Forces ultimately rest with the Minister of Public Safety, Foreign Affairs, or the Prime Minister?

4:20 p.m.

A/Commr James Malizia

I can't confirm whether that would be through Global Affairs or with the Minister of National Defence or.... I can't comment.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

I don't want specifics on the case; I just want to know, if there were consent from the host countries to collaborate on a rescue mission, who the ultimate decision-maker would be within the Government of Canada to proceed.

4:20 p.m.

Director General, Counter-Terrorism, Crime and Intelligence Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

David Drake

By principle, the senior decision-maker is the Prime Minister. That's the form of our government. Of course—again, I'm not talking about any particular case—these things are extremely complex, and there is a whole-of-government approach. They are not just a question of military, police, or foreign affairs. We work very much together on this, and there is a focus from all of us.