Evidence of meeting #2 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was turkey.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
That's right. Why was that done? Why was that action taken?
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Well, that action was taken—and Canada is very much in line with our other European allies on this—
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
—to focus on restrictions on group 2 munitions and military items that could be sent to Turkey ultimately via export-controlled permits.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
I understand that, but why was that decision taken?
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The decision was taken so as to not restrict the exports—
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
—of all export-controlled items to Turkey.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
There have been reports that Turkey has used these drones against the Kurds, the PKK, in Turkey proper and against the YPG in Syria and in Iraq. It may have possibly diverted these drones to Libya.
There needs to be a risk assessment, which Global Affairs has done. What was the conclusion of the risk assessment analysis regarding the purpose for which WESCAM proposed exporting these targeting systems to Turkey?
What was the conclusion of that risk assessment that was done?
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Just to clarify, there are possible allegations of Canadian technology on the drones. Canada is not responsible for—
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
—to be clear, is that seven targeting systems were exported by a company in Burlington, Ontario, to Turkey, to Baykar. We know that. At least two export permits were issued to do that.
What was the conclusion of the risk assessment analysis in granting these export permits?
Was that risk assessment done, and if so, what was it's conclusion?
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
We always undertake a full risk assessment—
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
I understand that, but what was the conclusion?
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The conclusion of risk assessments when the permits are issued is, ultimately, that there are no substantial risks.
Since the Arms Trade Treaty has come into effect in September—
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Sorry, I only have two minutes left.
In this particular case then, GAC agreed, and concluded in its risk assessment, that it was appropriate for these export permits to be granted. Is that what you're telling us?
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I think what's important to keep in mind is that the allegations that you mentioned earlier.... We're presently in the process of—
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
I haven't made an allegation. I've just said that there have been seven targeting systems exported from Burlington, Ontario, to Turkey. I never made any mention of these ending up in the conflict zone. I'm simply asked if GAC's analysis concluded that the approval of these export permits was appropriate in the circumstances.
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I've explained to you in general terms, of course, that we go through an Arms Trade Treaty evaluation process since the Arms Trade Treaty came into effect, so any permits, generally speaking, would have to go through that evaluation.
I can't comment on the details of any specific permits for reasons of commercial confidentiality.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
I understand that, but the reason I ask is that we know that Baykar lobbied PCO in February and that, in the same month, L3Harris WESCAM also lobbied Minister Champagne's office. We know that the Prime Minister and President Erdogan spoke in April, and it was publicly reported that Prime Minister Trudeau committed to taking steps to address Turkish concerns regarding Canadian military exports to Turkey.
Another question is this: Was there any direction from the Prime Minister's Office or Minister Champagne's office to approve these export permits?
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Again, I'm not in a position to discuss specific export permits for specific companies.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Can you tell us then how many export permits were approved in the springtime?
Acting Director General, Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I've actually asked that question as well. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to reveal numbers—
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
We know that at least two export permits have been granted. We hear that over a dozen have been granted. We would like to know how many export permits have been granted and the details of those export permits.
If the department could give that information to the clerk of the committee in the near future, it would be helpful for the committee's work.