Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2020

[Shalini Anand]

Again, I can't comment on individual permits, but I can say that brokering permits also go through—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I don't ask for any particular permits. Since April have any permits been granted to Turkey involving brokerage?

[Shalini Anand]

I'm sorry, because of commercial confidentiality, we don't comment on permits that may or may not have been granted. I can look into what we may be able to provide—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

We clearly need to know more information about Canada's trade.

In April a panel of experts was discussed to reflect on Canada's compliance with the Arms Trade Treaty. Has that been appointed yet?

[Shalini Anand]

The panel has not been appointed. I can give you a little bit more information about that panel.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

If it hasn't been appointed, I just want to know when it's going to be appointed and when it will get to work. If you don't know the answer to that question, that's fine. We'll have to ask someone else.

[Shalini Anand]

Yes, we are working to establish the panel and its mandate and membership. As you pointed out, it will be responsible for evaluating permits, and experts haven't been—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you. We will wait to hear when the panel is formed. I only have a couple of minutes here and I would like to speak to your colleague.

This war, which was in a ceasefire, with some breakouts since 1994 but now continues, appears at this point to have no end in sight, although the Minsk Group—which you talked about—actually had a set of principles in 2009 that appeared to be agreed upon in the sense that there was a statement saying....

These are called the “Madrid principles”, consisting of six principles for a resolution. The then chair countries asked the presidents to resolve the few remaining differences between them and finalize their arrangement on these basic principles. These are based on the non-use of force, territorial integrity and equal rights and self-determination of peoples, which Minister Champagne talked about recently.

Is there any hope, sir, for the Madrid principles and the OSCE approach to be effective in this situation, despite the stands being taken by both countries right now?

[David Sproule]

Yes. I am very hopeful. I think they both recognize—certainly their populations do—the great costs of the conflict ongoing. During most of the last 20 years, there has been a cessation of hostilities, and after every breakout in the past, we have reverted back to that cessation. Much of the time, it has been after negotiations and in conjunction with the work of the Minsk Group. So we are certainly hopeful that this will happen again.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I have one question. You mentioned in your briefing that there were over a million refugees and internally displaced persons as a result of the war up until the ceasefire in 1994. Could you tell me the status of those individuals currently and since 1994?

[David Sproule]

Some have remained separated from where they were, but, by and large, most of the Azerbaijani internally displaced people and refugees have not returned to their homes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I've heard the number is somewhere in the range of 700,000 or 800,000. Is that correct?

[David Sproule]

Yes. I've heard those kinds of ranges myself.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I see I have 30 seconds left.

Thank you, Chair, for reminding me of that.

What action can Canada take as a result of Mr. Champagne's visit to Europe? He met with NATO. He met with officials. He met with the Minsk Group people. Is there anything that could be offered now by way of progress from that trip?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Be very briefly, Mr. Sproule. Then Mr. Harris may have a chance to go back in the next round.

[David Sproule]

Canada is actively consulting and working with those who are directly involved, mostly via the Minsk Group chairs plus the larger committee, in an effort to use that mechanism to bring pressure onto the two sides.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Sproule.

We'll have to go to our next round of speakers.

We will start off with five-minute rounds. I will pass the floor to Mr. Diotte.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

This is for Ms. Anand. It's basically a pretty straightforward question. I just wonder why Canada allowed the export of seven air strike-targeting devices to Turkey this May despite the arms embargo.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

You're not listening to the answer, are you?

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Excuse me, but I'm not talking to you, Ms. Fry.

[Shalini Anand]

I can't comment on any individual export permits. What I can say is that in April of this year, 2020, Canada reduced the restrictions on Turkey. In October 2019, Canada put in place a suspension on the issuance of all new export permits to Turkey.

Presently and since April, restrictions continue to apply to military exports, the export of military munitions items to Turkey. However, we are considering on a case-by-case basis whether there are exceptional circumstances, including, for example but not limited to, NATO co-operation programs that may justify the issuance of a group 2 permit. That, in general terms, is our export controls policy towards Turkey, and that's what changed in April. But again, I cannot comment on individual export permits because of commercial confidentiality.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Many stories about this have been in The Globe and Mail and lots of other papers, so it's not as though it's a state secret, obviously.

Do you think that Canada is in violation of its international commitments such as the Wassenaar Arrangement?

[Shalini Anand]

What I can say is that in September 2019, Canada acceded to the Arms Trade Treaty, and we assess all export permits applications as relevant against that and against our domestic Export and Import Permits Act to ensure that we are compliant with those requirements before issuing any export permits. We are members, as you noted, of a number of multilateral export controls regimes and the regulatory framework that we have in place as well as the process to assess each of these permits is in line with those multilateral export controls regimes including the Wassenaar Arrangement you mentioned.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Great.

Right now, there's a report that at least one Canadian citizen has been killed in the recent conflict. My question to either of you is, how many Canadians are currently in the conflict zone, and what, if any, plans are being arranged to evacuate them?

[David Sproule]

If I may respond, we're not aware of Canadians in the conflict zone. No names have been brought to our attention, or we have not received information to that effect at this time.