Foreign Affairs Committee on June 1st, 2021

[H.E. Andriy Shevchenko]

Thank you very much.

I would specifically refer to the propaganda portion of the visual presentation that you have. If you look through those quotes from the Russian propaganda leaders, that pretty much tells you how seriously they have taken this situation. You might see this cartoon with NATO and with some very horrible, terrible death pictures.

For those of us who remember how the Soviet propaganda worked, this clearly reminded me of the old days of the Cold War, when the Soviet regime spent and invested huge resources in this propaganda effort against its key western opponents.

Finally, the Russians have spread something they call the list of the worst enemies of the Russian federation. There are 10 countries on that list. They include, of course, Ukraine and Canada. Russia has officially said it is considering the ways it's going to make our lives more difficult, so we'll see what is to come.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Can you comment on the pulse of the current public perception of the conflict there? Have Ukrainian perceptions changed or evolved?

[H.E. Andriy Shevchenko]

I think we can see how the Kremlin can increase and decrease its activities when it comes to propaganda. For obvious reasons, they increased this propaganda activity against Ukraine and its allies this year.

There were two major avenues for their propaganda. First, they presented Ukraine to their public as a major threat to Russian security, so they would say that sooner or later Ukraine was going to invade Russia. Secondly, they also presented Ukraine as a puppet state in the hands of the United States, Canada and other countries, and they tried to scare the Russian public with this NATO invasion through Ukraine.

One way or another, it's obvious that one of the reasons Putin wanted to do this was to change the subject in the news. The Navalny protests were a major concern for the Russian government. Also, they have an upcoming parliamentary election this fall. Probably with all these escalation activities, one of the reasons Putin wanted to go ahead with that was to solve his domestic problems and get some domestic results.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

To follow up on a question asked earlier by Mr. Chong regarding the IRGC, I wonder if you could speak to the importance of the international community's acting in a coordinated way to condemn the IRGC's actions.

[H.E. Andriy Shevchenko]

It's critically important. Let me say this: We cannot allow those criminals who shot down the plane to hide behind state secrets, and we cannot allow the Iranian government to hide the criminals from international prosecution. Going to the international court is one option.

Ukraine has a very impressive experience of dealing with such tragedies. I can refer you to the MH17 situation. In fact, in Ukraine, it's the same investigation team that is now dealing with PS752.

Going back to your question, it's very important that we speak with one voice. It's very important that together we get to the bottom of this terrible tragedy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Ms. Stubbs. That's just about your time. Thank you very much for being with us.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

The final set of questions this afternoon goes to Dr. Fry.

Please go ahead.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you, Chair. I know I don't have five minutes, because we have to leave on the dot, but I just want to follow up with a simple question. It is about PS752. I know that many people in Canada, because Canada had the majority of people on that flight, are asking for Canada to go with like-minded people to the United Nations Security Council and to demand an independent investigation. I'd like to know what you think about that.

Before you answer, I told you what a beautiful city Kiev is, but I want to also take the opportunity to say that I was at both presidential elections, the run-off and then the main presidential election, and I was most impressed. What impressed me so much was what I saw.

The infrastructure, of course, in Ukraine, is terrible, but I saw 90-year-olds climbing 25 steps to go to vote. Although your voting system was extraordinary and you had the ability to go to their homes if they were elderly and arthritic, they wanted to go to vote. With your turnout, Canada could learn about that commitment to democracy, that commitment to free and fair elections, that desire that the Ukrainians have for really ensuring that they were able to vote and to make their vote count. I thought that was really important. I was impressed, and frankly, quite moved by it. I thought maybe we could get some Ukrainian seniors to come and tell Canadians about going to the ballots during their elections. I don't know if we could do that.

Anyway, I just want you to answer the question for me about PS752.

[H.E. Andriy Shevchenko]

I'll just say briefly that we still have homework to do when it comes to co-operation among our own law enforcement agencies in investigating PS752. That's what we are determined to do. I'm not very enthusiastic about the United Nations and the Security Council as long as Russia has a veto right in the Security Council.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Yes.

[H.E. Andriy Shevchenko]

Again, we will always find ways to investigate and get to the bottom of this, together with Canada.

Chair, I feel that this is probably about the end of our conversation. I'd like to use this as an opportunity to say thank you to all the members of the committees. It was an extraordinary conversation and I hope it will help you make well-informed decisions in the interests of the Canadian public. Your support is very touching and is very important to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Dr. Fry, unless you have another question, I thank you very much for that intervention—

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

No, I don't, but I was going to say how important it is for us to have had this discussion and to know that it would be so very important to have Ukraine as an eastern European democratic country committed to all the international rules and all the tenets of democracy. It would be such a pleasure to have you right there, being in that most important strategic position.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Dr. Fry.

Colleagues, that takes us to the end of our time with our witnesses this afternoon.

On our collective behalf, I would like to thank His Excellency Ambassador Shevchenko, Colonel Siromakha and Mr. Liashenko for their time.

This was about the friendship between our countries. This was about shared values. In great part, it was also about substance. We had a very fulsome discussion over the two hours, and we're extremely grateful for your time and your testimony this afternoon.

Ambassador, I understand that before we disconnect, your team has asked for a screenshot. I would like to encourage all members who would like to be in that screenshot to come on in.

I'm assuming we have somebody, or maybe multiple people from our team, who will take that shot. Can we get a signal from them once it's done?

I'm getting a thumbs-up from the clerk.

Everybody, just hold a smile and we will do our screenshots.

Brilliant. Colleagues, thank you so much.

This takes us to the end of our session. Please be safe.

We will adjourn until our next meeting.

Again, our sincere thanks to our witnesses.

Take care.