Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2020

[Alison Grant]

Yes.

Sorry, I need to correct myself. The sanctions enacted under SEMA are, in this case, targeted against individuals. We have 42 individuals to whom sanctions will be applied under the SEMA for Belarus. The consequences for those individuals are that they are inadmissible to Canada, that Canadians cannot have dealings with those individuals and also that their assets, if they have assets in Canada, will be frozen. Those are consequences against a set of individuals, but the reason the trigger was reached in SEMA was the human rights violations that we judge to have been actions of a foreign state—in this context, the state of Belarus and the administration of Belarus. That is what distinguishes SEMA.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

If I understood you correctly, the trigger is different but the effects on the individuals are the same. There would be no need, I suppose, to impose Magnitsky sanctions as well because the effects on the individuals are the same. Is that right?

[Alison Grant]

That's my assessment, yes. I need to qualify that I'm not a sanctions expert, but that is my assessment.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a different question.

I found it interesting that the Government of China was quick out of the gate to endorse the existing president. This seems to be an interesting case of daylight between the Russian position and the Chinese government position. I wonder if either of you have thoughts about what the strategic agenda of China is. Is it distinct from Russia's? What are its goals in Belarus? What does this suggest about the relationship between Chinese and Russian foreign policy?

[David Sproule]

They did take slightly different approaches. It's not uncommon for China to support authoritarian regimes, and therefore they have done so, to a great extent, in this case. I think that Russia's position has to be a little more nuanced. They are on the border with the country, and it was part of their sphere of influence—in fact, part of the Soviet Empire—and their ties are more essential, closer—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Can I just ask a quick follow-up question in the time I have left?

What does it mean to Russia that China has taken this position in their immediate backyard?

[David Sproule]

I don't know what it means for Russia. I think overall it indicates that China sees itself as a world power and it has interests and will play a part, as appropriate, everywhere internationally, not just in their region.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Mr. Sproule, again, that was perfectly timed.

The next round, again, is five minutes, and goes to Mr. Fonseca.

The floor is yours.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Sproule, following up on Russia, I've read some reports that there's a semi-permanent Russian military presence in Belarus. Are you aware of that?

[David Sproule]

Again, I'm going to defer this question to Ms. Grant.

[Alison Grant]

No, I don't have details on any Russian semi-permanent military presence. I know that a point of contention between Russia and Belarus over the years has been the establishment of a military base in Belarus, and you've seen Alexander Lukashenko publicly make comments about it that weren't welcomed by Russia. In early September we saw a gathering of the Russian national guard and law enforcement near the Russian-Belarusian border. It was called back after the meeting between President Putin and Lukashenko on September 14, where those were withdrawn. They weren't in Belarus proper, though. That's the information I have.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Just to follow up on that, what are the risks that Russia would or could intervene directly in Belarus?

[Alison Grant]

I would say that it's hard to gauge the risks of something like a Russian intervention. We obviously do not want Russia interfering in Belarus's internal affairs. As Mr. Sproule said, Russia is very concerned about stability on its borders. We've seen that before with other states too. It will be tracking political stability. They, to date, have publicly recognized Belarusian sovereignty and have not made any declarations that imply that they will be intervening, so it is something to monitor and to watch. It's hard, again, to gauge the risk. From the Russian point of view, they look at stability on their borders, and a massive deterioration of stability would be a cause—

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you.

We've seen many vulnerable citizens put themselves out there in these protests. We've seen women. We've seen people with disabilities, factory workers and those from academia. It's quite a swath of the general public that is out there in these protests. There are hundreds of thousands of people. They continue to grow. Another group that I want to bring to your attention is athletes—Olympians, world champions, number one tennis players in the world, etc.—who are protesting.

In terms of our foreign policy, I've been asked by the Belarusian Canadian Alliance and Mr. Mitt Korot whether there would there be an opportunity for Canada to look at providing a refugee status, permanent resident status, so these individuals who are being persecuted, if they thought of coming to Canada, would be able to be sponsored to come here.

[David Sproule]

This is a question that would have to be determined in each individual case, as to whether or not the individual in question meets the criteria for status as a refugee. It's very difficult to speak in very general terms. It is possible to talk about the difficult situation that the Belarusian people find themselves in within their country, but whether any individual—be they athletes or otherwise—would meet the criteria would have to be determined.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you very much.

Again, on Russia, to what degree does Belarus depend on Russia economically and military-wise? Do they have support from anybody else? We heard China, but besides China, who has gotten behind Belarus?

[David Sproule]

Since the crisis...?

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Since the crisis.

[David Sproule]

There have been many countries that have not been as supportive and as actively engaged in terms of pushing back against the regime as has Canada and like-minded others. In terms of active support, there hasn't been very much. It's difficult to see why governments would want to back what many think will be ultimately a losing proposition by Mr. Lukashenko as he continues his repression of his own people.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Play this out. As these protests continue to grow, where do you see this conflict ending?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Give very brief answer, Mr. Sproule, please.

[David Sproule]

I think it's indicative that it's not likely to end as Mr. Lukashenko would like and that repression has not so far succeeded. There will have to be some sort of compromise on his part, and we would advocate fresh new elections and a new start with a regime that's respectful of human rights.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fonseca and Mr. Sproule.

The next series of questions will be asked by Mr. Bergeron.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll ask my questions all at once.

Has the Canadian government coordinated with other western countries on sanctions against the Belarusian leadership?

There appears to be credible evidence that peaceful demonstrators have been tortured. It appears that, last week, the Canadian government had no evidence of the presence of Syrian mercenaries in Nagorno-Karabakh.

This time, does the Canadian government have any evidence that torture is actually being practised by the Belarusian government?

[David Sproule]

I'll try to answer your questions in order. To answer your first question with regard to coordination of sanctions, yes, we have coordinated very closely with sanctions. You will know that the first set of sanctions that Canada imposed was done in coordination with and on the same day as the United Kingdom, and soon thereafter, the EU followed.

The second set of sanctions was coordinated very closely with others, and they were very close or even on the same day as the European Union imposed their sanctions. It's fair to say that we do coordinate very closely, because that is how they're most effective when we impose them.

We have quite credible reports of repression such as abuse of a detainee and sexual violence against those who are incarcerated. The human rights abuses from quite credible sources are quite alarming, and that has led to many of the measures that Canada has taken under SEMA with regard to individuals because of these systematic and gross violations.