Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2020

[David Sproule]

It did so because we saw that the criteria for using SEMA were met exactly. In other words, there were gross and systematic violations of human rights by the Lukashenko regime, together with his officials and those who implemented those repressive measures.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Mr. Chong. That's perfectly timed.

Thank you, Mr. Sproule.

The next round goes to Dr. Fry, for six minutes.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much for that excellent briefing.

I just wanted to follow up. At a period in which we lifted sanctions, did we only have 16 other OSCE nations that were agreeing to lift sanctions or did we have more join after that?

[David Sproule]

When we lifted sanctions in 2016...?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Yes.

[David Sproule]

Those were the key countries that had imposed sanctions in 2006, for the most part.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

As you well know, given even the Helsinki agreement, all of it is being violated.

Canada is actually a part of the OSCE. I wonder what the OSCE is planning to do with the fact that ODIHR—which, as you well know, monitors elections in the region—was not allowed to monitor elections. Way back last year, they had made 32 recommendations for allowing free and fair elections, against the torture of political prisoners and for allowing members of other parties to be able to run their candidacy without any discrimination or any fear. None of that has happened, and ODIHR was denied.

What are the steps that you think OSCE as a whole, which I know works on consensus and therefore can get zero done in any instance.... I'm sorry for being cynical here. Is there something that the OSCE as a body can do? Belarus is a member. Belarus has agreed to all of the agreements, yet is not obeying any of them.

What do you really think OSCE can do, other than economic sanctions, border restrictions and so on? There's rape. There's torture. There's sexual violence going on. There is complete intimidation.

What I wanted to point out, which I think the committee should know, is that the people heading up most of these protests in the streets, day after day, are mostly women, yet women are being intimidated by threats of rape and sexual violence. What can the OSCE as a body do?

Otherwise, the OSCE is really toothless in doing anything.

[David Sproule]

So far, the OSCE has done two things mainly. One is to offer mediation services through its co-chairs. The co-chair is currently Albania, and the next co-chair will be Sweden.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Yes.

[David Sproule]

Unfortunately—and maybe predictably—the Lukashenko regime has rejected that offer. However, they have also appointed a rapporteur to undertake a study of the situation there. He has not been able to travel to Belarus, but he has produced a report—yesterday—with many recommendations insofar as what should be done.

Among those, there are several that Canada has already adopted, for example, not to recognize the election, to call it fraudulent and to call for new elections. He has also suggested other measures that member states of the OSCE should undertake, and we are currently studying those.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

One of the measures that was suggested was also to release political prisoners and to stop the intimidation and arrest of journalists. What, if anything, has Lukashenko done to respond to both of those, which are very clear questions and decisions that are being put by OSCE? What has Lukashenko said he would do?

What do you do to a country that just says no? Can you kick it out of the OSCE? I don't know.

[David Sproule]

The OSCE does not have enforcement mechanisms, per se. It relies on the actions of its member states, and member states do the sorts of things that Canada has been doing, such as imposing sanctions and economic pressures, making public announcements, working in conjunction with others to bring attention to the situation and reminding Belarus of its international human rights obligations.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

I was just going to get to the human rights violations that are going on right now in Belarus. Are there any OSCE nations currently, at this point, that are not joining in the sanctions and the recommendations that have been made by OSCE and ODIHR? What are the countries, other than Russia, that are supporting Belarus and are not joining in the sanctions?

[David Sproule]

There are a number of countries that have not joined in the sanctions. The main countries and institutions that have are the EU, the United States, the U.K., Norway and one more. The others have not gotten there yet.

We are hopeful that they will follow the lead that Canada and others have taken, and follow in our footsteps in terms of developing those sanctions. We believe they're effective. They send a strong political message, and they have a real impact on the individuals who have undertaken these violations.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Dr. Fry and Mr. Sproule.

Before we give the floor to Mr. Bergeron, I want to canvass your views, colleagues. We are advised that we're still having trouble connecting our staff colleagues to the live feed of this committee proceeding. I'm in your hands with respect to the need to suspend. I'm told that this is not something that's quickly fixed.

Let's have a quick round of thoughts. Should we continue, in light of the time we've lost because of the vote, or is there a strong feeling that we would want our staff to be accessible to us in real time?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I would say that it's been suggested in the past that we just allow our staff to sign into the Zoom call. It's not an issue for me, because I'm in the room.

I don't think we should suspend, but can we not simply give staff the opportunity, at least on a temporary basis, to sign into the Zoom call itself?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

We will put that question to our IT team and the clerk.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Erica Pereira]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's not common practice right now, and we are working on solutions to make staff's joining the meetings more secure.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I'll just mention that we had major issues with our first meeting, so we really should have these things straightened out.

I'm okay without staff today, but I hope it's fixed for our next meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Does anybody else want to weigh in on this issue quickly?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

I just want to say that it seems strange to me that staff can get in on in camera meetings but can't get in on public meetings. Surely the security for in camera meetings should be more stringent than that for public meetings.

I think this question is important. I understand that negotiations are going on. Perhaps all of us could go back to our respective whips and see what we can do to rectify this, so that staff can come in on public as well as in camera meetings properly.

We could do this, if we wish to.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I would disagree. I hope we can just continue. If the delay were horrendous, that would be a problem.

For this particular meeting, I think we should continue and try to plod our way through it.

I'm always wary about giving an opinion on anything technical, because I'm not sure of the facts. I would say that we know the House is working in good faith on this. If we give them a bit of the benefit of the doubt, we should just keep plodding on today. Hopefully it will be rectified in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, we seem to have a consensus. With that, we will continue.

Mr. Bergeron, you have six minutes.