Foreign Affairs Committee on April 10th, 2024

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first thanks is to this committee for undertaking this study. I am already fantasizing about a unanimous report from this committee that shines a light on Africa and demands that our government do more. I am already hopeful that we can move on this as a committee and try to keep this study on track for the next several weeks.

I have a couple of questions. I feel it's unfair, partly because I think the committee could ask me to be a witness, since some of the questions from Mr. Bergeron would probably go right to me. I'm happy to have lunch and talk more about that.

You mentioned right at the start that “Agenda 2063: The Africa We Want” is not only an important document but also a living document. It talks particularly about rededicating to an “enduring Pan African vision”. I'd like to know what the department understands that to be. I hear we still organize around and perceive North Africa and sub-Saharan Africa differently.

How do we understand Africa's request to have a pan-African approach?

[Cheryl Urban]

Even as we look at this at present, we are looking at it as the whole continent, not simply sub-Sahara or North Africa. We're looking at that as a whole.

I will turn to Sue to answer that question.

[Susan Steffen]

I think one of the most interesting trends and most remarkable things happening on the African continent is an increasing unity, partly driven by the African Union itself, partly driven by the dream of having an African continental free trade area and partly because of the increasing ability of African states to work with each other to solve African problems.

I think it's a real trend that needs to be supported, and it's part of why we are engaging with the African Union Commission the way we are.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Following up on that, there's been a decision by the Minister of Foreign Affairs to appoint the first full-time, permanent representative to the African Union. I like to think of him as the Bob Rae—or better—of Africa.

What is the implication of that, how is it being perceived and what is his role?

[Susan Steffen]

Our first dedicated, permanent observer to the African Union is Ambassador Ben Marc Diendéré. He's doing an excellent job for us.

For the last 15 years, we have had a permanent observer to the African Union. This is the first time we've had a dedicated permanent observer. Before, it was double-headed with the ambassador to Ethiopia. What this allows us to do is have, obviously, more dedicated attention to the issues—creating those networks based exclusively on this pan-African approach in our interactions not just with member states but also with the commission itself, and with the African Union as a political body, not just the technocratic body.

Our ambassador has spent a lot of time meeting with African member states and representatives to the African Union. It's allowing us to get a very in-depth view of what their perspectives are on the African Union as a body and political movement, and also what their individual states' issues are and how they would like to use the African Union to try to resolve some of those issues.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I want to focus a bit on the conflict.

The library has prepared—to the analysts, thanks for your notes—a couple of very excellent maps on the conflict region. I hope the department looks at them.

I wanted to give the major-general a chance to elaborate a bit more on the Elsie initiative. I was recently at the Dakar International Forum on Peace and Security in Africa. One of the most moving moments I had there was when the Elsie initiative was celebrated in a way that I don't think most Canadians know about. I know that my colleague Ms. Damoff has also been doing that work in Ghana.

Could you expand a bit on that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Could you respond in 25 seconds, please?

[MGen Gregory Smith]

Chair, I'll speak very quickly, and I have a colleague here who would like to say something.

I agree. It's humbling to see these efforts to try to get more women into peacekeeping. I'll leave my colleague to give the statistics of how successful that can be towards returning to peace in times of insecurity; it's wonderful to see.

I'll defer to my colleague, who can talk more about it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Very briefly, please.

[Caroline Delany, Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

I was going to touch on the example in Zambia, which is a partner for police peacekeeping in terms of increasing the number of Zambian police. They have very high rates of women in the police force in Zambia, but until the Elsie initiative had not had a lot of success in terms of having them pass the necessary exams to be able to participate in peacekeeping missions.

Their pass rate is now extremely high. Off the top of my head, I think it's close to 100%, and it has made a real difference in terms of the ability of Zambian policewomen to participate in peacekeeping missions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Oliphant, I'm afraid you're out of time. Thank you.

We now go to Mr. Bergeron. You have two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I'd like to come back to the question that was asked by our colleague Mr. Epp.

I felt that you tried to convince us that Canada was very active in Africa. Yet, by your own admission, this is not the case. Indeed, Global Affairs Canada's discussion paper on the future of diplomacy states that “Africa remains the continent with the most promising prospects for economic growth and where Canada remains under-represented”.

In fact, only one of Canada's 10 largest diplomatic missions, in terms of size, is located in Africa, in Nairobi, Kenya. First, one might ask why Kenya was chosen, but also why there's only one in Africa and why there's so little diplomatic representation.

Also, in terms of economic co-operation, we have free trade agreements with North American countries, other countries in the Americas, European countries, Indo-Pacific countries, but none with a country in Africa.

What explains this apparent lack of interest in Africa?

[Cheryl Urban]

I'll start and then turn to my colleagues. I'll start with the second question with regard to trade.

I think the real name of the game at the moment in the region is the African continental free trade area, but it's kind of nascent. We need to give that some time in order to develop. There are important aspects of it, and there are countries that need to come along. That will provide promise for Canadians. I think that's the lens through which we need to look at trade: the continent-wide African continental free trade area.

I would also say that with our existing presence and the presence that we've had, there are examples of Canadian leadership. There are places where we've had a disproportionate impact. That includes, even, for example, if you look at the recent passing of the Right Honourable Brian Mulroney with Canadian interventions in South Africa, and how we played an important role.

We've invested in other countries as well and we've had a big impact. Perhaps I could turn to my colleagues to provide some concrete examples of how we have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

My apologies, but you have literally 15 seconds. Thank you.

[Caroline Delany]

Because the member referenced Kenya, I would highlight that Kenya is an important regional player in east Africa and then also on the continent and with respect to global challenges like climate change.

One of the reasons we have a significant presence from a Global Affairs perspective is really recognizing that leadership role that Kenya plays and the opportunity to work with them, not just in the development realm, where we are engaged on things like ATVET training for jobs and skills like that and gender equality, but also on the job opportunities and the economic opportunities that exist for Canadian companies in areas like ICT and clean technology.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We now go to Ms. McPherson.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Char.

Again, thank you for the testimony. It's very interesting.

I have only two and a half minutes and I'd like a bit of context on how you respond to conflict situations. I'm going to use Sudan as an example of that, because it is one of the most pressing ones we have right now.

Ms. Urban, I know the minister promised $40 million of humanitarian aid to go to Sudan, in June 2023, I think it was. How much of that has been delivered?

[Cheryl Urban]

Perhaps I will ask my colleague Caroline to answer. She is responsible for our Sudan questions.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

How much of that is on the ground and has been disbursed?

[Caroline Delany]

Not being from the humanitarian sector, I would hazard to say that since that was a commitment for fiscal year 2023-24, which has finished, it would all have been disbursed at this point.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Could you just double-check that and let us know for sure that it has been disbursed?

[Caroline Delany]

Absolutely.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I have another question. I'm not exactly sure who this would go to, but in terms of the sanctions and applying sanctions, we know that the Sudanese Canadian community has asked for sanctions to be applied to those who are causing the Sudanese conflict. Why have those not been applied? Why have we not used our sanctions regime in this instance?

[Caroline Delany]

We do look at all the tools that are available to us in terms of the response to a situation like Sudan. Sanctions are one of the things that are under consideration.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Could you tell me a little bit about how that happens? Frankly it seems as though we're very quick and very thorough at least in the naming if not the enforcement of sanctions in places like Russia, so it's very difficult to understand why these sanctions have not happened in Sudan. What does the process look like?