Foreign Affairs Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay.

[Michael Callan]

I think there could be some interesting work done there.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay. You'd say, generally, that it's been positive, then.

We see restrictions on the number of students allowed to come into Canada now. How is that going to impact us in the future?

[Michael Callan]

That's a good question.

It's difficult to predict exactly how it will pan out. I know one thing: It's not necessarily the volume of exchanges. There's a quality dimension there. If we work with those who get the chance to study earnestly, there's still a lot that can be done to capitalize on those exchanges.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Make the best of it. That is what you're basically saying, then.

The other question I have is this: Where are the opportunities for Canadians to work with other countries in some of those countries, instead of us trying to do this all by ourselves? Is there an opportunity where we could—instead of trying to take on a project by ourselves—work with France, the U.K. or other countries to enhance the project and make it more successful in those types of partnerships?

Have we had any experience doing that?

[Michael Callan]

Yes, I'd say it's probably more often the norm that we work hand in glove with like-minded partners and multilateral organizations that have their own expertise in-house and their own networks, as well.

More often than not, we're collectively working and pooling resources and knowledge to maximize the impact of every dollar we invest.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

When it comes to the business side of things, I know Europe has been very aggressively investing throughout Africa. We've seen Russia investing in security and being very involved in the region.

Wouldn't we be better off working with our European allies to look at where we can fulfill what's being left out, considering they're so far ahead of us compared with where we're at today?

[Michael Callan]

I'd say yes. I'd agree with you.

In terms of focusing on areas where we can have the greatest impact.... I know “focus” is a word that has come up a number of times. I believe strongly in concentrating on our comparative advantages. Canada has many of them, which opens a lot of doors for us. We need not compete with our European partners head-to-head, but there's often room.... We've mentioned some of the sectors, whether it's agriculture, education, ICT, mining, certainly—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I don't mean to cut you off. I just don't have much time.

Right now, we have an Asia-Pacific plan. There's a plan laid out. It's written out, documented and published.

Do you see something like that forthcoming for Africa? Do you see us putting together a document like that, in order to have a game plan so everybody knows what the goals are, and everybody understands what our objectives would be? Is that something in the works at this point in time?

[Michael Callan]

Absolutely.

Ben Marc, do you want to take that on—the approach to Africa more generally?

[Ben Marc Diendéré]

I must say yes. I'm confident we're going to have something very comprehensive for Africa.

I don't want to mirror the engagement, or whatever we're doing for the Indo-Pacific.

These are two completely different regions, two regions where circumstances are completely different. The document may not be enormous, in terms of the number of pages, for example, but it will be relatively exhaustive. We are working very hard on finding ideas and developing a strategy that will last.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Do you know when we can expect to see the plan?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you. We're a minute over time, Mr. Hoback.

We will now go to Mr. Zuberi.

You have four minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here, especially at this late hour, which it is for many of you.

I'd like to start with Ambassador Diendéré, in order to know about the priorities Canada has with respect to the African Union's Agenda 2063.

What priorities do we have, and can you elaborate on them? What does Canada have to offer?

[Ben Marc Diendéré]

Thank you, Mr. MP.

We have, right now, two dialogues. One is on trade and the second one is on development. We can provide you with the content of these two dialogues we're having with the African Union.

The two dialogues are very in line with Agenda 2063 objectives, and we're trying right now

to make sure we have clear avenues for action.

We are just beginning all of these dialogues, and after nine months—that's how long I've been here—we now have all the dialogues out. We want to focus on the next step of guiding whatever action we have to take on the engagement with Africa.

We have to establish very clear actions that we can bring to you, but we are already seeing recurring subjects emerging.

On this continent, having electrical energy is a big deal. Climate change and green energy are big deals. Agriculture is a big deal. We cannot shy away from those subjects.

We are already seeing some of the framework of our strategy taking shape.

Vocational education is another thing.

We already have potential avenues that are certainly going to be confirmed with the African Union over time. Its members are not in a great rush. They want to see very clear strategies.

They want to renew their own partnership there.

They do not want partners who are going to abandon them after two or three years. They want to consolidate their relationships, and the new leadership of the African Union will certainly be launching a second ten-year implementation plan for Agenda 2063.

They just finished the first decade. They're starting the second one, and I think we will be well positioned for the next decade with our plan.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

I would now like to read my notice of motion.

My notice of motion has already been sent to all members. I'm just reading it into the record for everyone's awareness.

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of the Indo-Pacific Strategy and Canada’s work to strengthen state-to-state, people-to-people, and business-to-business engagement in the region, as outlined by the Strategy's five priorities:

(a) promoting peace, resilience, and security;

(b) expanding trade, investment, and supply chain resilience;

(c) investing in, and connecting, people;

(d) building a sustainable and green future; and

(e) fulfilling Canada's role as an active and engaged partner in the region;

That the study include an examination of Canada's continued engagement with India and China, as well as:

(a) efforts to strengthen ties across the North Pacific with Korea and Japan;

(b) the opportunities created by increasing people-to-people ties between Canada and the Philippines as a result of the significant growth of the Filipino-Canadian community;

(c) the Strategic Partnership between Canada and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN);

(d) the place of Pakistan — situated at the nexus of the Indo-Pacific, Central Asia, and the Middle East — and other countries on the periphery of the Indo-Pacific region within the Strategy; and

(e) the importance of strengthening relations with Pacific Island nations as they face existential threats of climate change;

That such a study consist of a minimum of six meetings;

That the committee report its findings to the House; and

That, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request a government response.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you. We will go to Mr. Aboultaif.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you, Chair. Thanks to the member.

We don't have a copy of this motion. I'm not sure if it was distributed or not.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

It was distributed—

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

It was sent to the clerk, and I believe it was distributed to all members several days ago.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes. I was just advised by the clerk that it was distributed on May 8.

Okay, Mr. Bergeron, please go ahead.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

If I understand correctly, Mr. Zuberi has simply submitted the motion and he does not necessarily want us to discuss it today. So we will certainly have an opportunity to come back to it, and maybe even agree on an amalgamated version. You will recall that I have submitted a motion that the committee study relations between Canada and India, myself.

I think we will also have to reconcile how we coordinate with the work done by our colleagues on the Special Committee on the Canada–People's Republic of China Relationship, which is also examining Canada's Indo-Pacific Strategy. That way, we will avoid duplication and will be able to work efficiently.

We will have an opportunity to come back to this, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes. We will have an opportunity on Wednesday, actually.

Next we go to Mr. Bergeron.

You have two minutes for your questioning.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am first going to address the question of the economy. Canada has signed foreign investment promotion and protection agreements with nine African countries. It has signed free trade agreements with countries on every continent except Africa. As we know, a broad economic agreement was signed in 2023 between Kenya and the European Union—with which we had so much trouble developing the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, which has not yet been ratified. We also know that an agreement establishing the African Continental Free Trade Area was signed in 2019 among the members of the African Union.

Why are we not seizing the economic opportunities that this great continent offers us?

[Ben Marc Diendéré]

Thank you.

I think that is what we are doing, but maybe we are not doing it as fast as others are. That being said, we may also have been lucky: Those who have signed agreements did so in a context that is changing very rapidly. Before May, we did not know that the situation would deteriorate in the near east and Middle East to the extent it has. That changes the entire dynamic at present. We have to consider the concrete results of these agreements.

In any event, I think we do have to sign agreements. We cannot do anything with the countries of Africa if we do not clearly establish common ground. Now, will they be agreements in the classical form? My experience tells me that at this stage, Africa does not need us to be mimicking other mechanisms that exist now or things that once existed. What the African countries want today is creativity. We have to do things differently if they are to benefit everyone: those countries as well as any country that wants to do business with them. Yes, there are agreements, but we need to see to what extent they are just on paper rather than real. I am not saying that the African Union does not have a good agreement, but it is the African Union. It consists of 23 or 24 countries together, while Canada is all alone on its side.

In my opinion, the agreements—