Evidence of meeting #116 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was conflict.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Caroline Delany  Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Julie Desloges  Acting Director, International Humanitarian Assistance, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Jacqueline O'Neill  Ambassador for Women, Peace and Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting 116 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Before we begin, I'd like to ask all in-person participants to read the guidelines written on the updated cards on their table.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. All witnesses have completed the required connection tests in advance of the meeting.

I'd also like to remind all members of the following points. Please wait until I recognize you by name before you speak. Please do raise your hand if you wish to speak, whether you're participating in person or via Zoom.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee will now commence its study of the current situation in Sudan.

I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome our three witnesses.

We're grateful to have with us today Ms. Julie Desloges, the acting director of the international humanitarian assistance division, and Ms. Caroline Delany, the director general of southern and eastern Africa bureau. Last, but certainly not least, we're also very grateful to have Ambassador Jacqueline O'Neill, who is our ambassador for women, peace and security.

I understand that there will only be one opening statement and it will be by Ms. Delany.

You have 10 minutes, after which we will open the floor to questions by members. Once we get very close to the 10 minutes, I will be putting up a sign, so you can just kindly start wrapping things up when you see it. That applies not only to your opening remarks, but also to your responses to questions by the members.

With all of that having been explained, welcome.

The floor is yours, Ms. Delany.

Caroline Delany Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the committee members for this opportunity to discuss the situation in Sudan.

While the conflict there may seem very far away from Canada, it has important ramifications for Canadian interests in the world. The scale of human suffering, the significant human rights abuses and the potential for broader destabilization in the region make this conflict an important issue for Canadian engagement.

I would like to begin by reminding committee members of the sources of the conflict that is wreaking havoc in Sudan.

Following a military coup in 1989, Omar al‑Bashir seized power. During his 30-year reign, his regime concentrated the vast majority of investment and development efforts in the capital region, to the detriment of the outlying areas.

This has caused grievances among the population living in regions far from Khartoum. Long-standing subnational conflicts in the south led to the separation of South Sudan. At the same time, a conflict erupted in the early 2000s in Darfur that had a significant impact on the civilian population. The situation prompted the International Criminal Court to issue arrest warrants for crimes against humanity and genocide for Omar al‑Bashir.

In 2019, Sudanese men and women demonstrated against the ruling regime and demanded that a civilian-led democratic government be formed. The protests brought about the fall of President Omar al‑Bashir's regime. At the time of the revolution, Sudan was a very poor and fragile country that had suffered from underdevelopment and economic mismanagement for decades. Nevertheless, the international community, including Canada, supported a transition to democracy. Unfortunately, in October 2021, the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces, a paramilitary group, joined forces to illegally overthrow Sudan's civilian transitional government.

After the overthrow, the international community's efforts focused on setting up negotiations between civilian players, political parties, the SAF and the RSF. These efforts gave rise to several months of negotiations between stakeholders to re-establish civilian rule. One of the most controversial issues was the integration of the RSF into the SAF to form a united national army.

Despite these initiatives, negotiations failed to restore civilian, democratic governance after a military confrontation between the SAF and the RSF began on April 15, 2023. It is not yet clear who started the conflict, but fighting in the capital rapidly intensified and spread to other parts of the country. The conflict began 18 months ago. Over time, the situation has become more complex due to the high number of Sudanese and regional players seeking to protect their interests.

Let me now address the current conditions in Sudan.

Efforts at mediation continue but have not yielded results. Fighting continues across Sudan between the Sudanese Armed Forces, the SAF, and the Rapid Support Forces, the RSF, without any signs of abating.

At the outbreak of the conflict, the SAF quickly relocated government and military operations to Port Sudan on the Red Sea in the eastern part of the country. They maintain control in this region along with the north.

The RSF have consolidated control over most of the Darfur region and earlier this year began pushing south and east toward SAF territory. The RSF still controls much of the capital city and its surrounding areas, although the SAF have recently reclaimed some parts.

As a result, the conditions for civilians in Sudan are among the most dire found in any current conflict. Overall, in Sudan, a country with an estimated population of 48.1 million, over 8.3 million people are internally displaced and more than 2.1 million have fled to neighbouring countries. This makes Sudan the world's largest displacement crisis.

Recent UNICEF estimates also suggest that 17 million children are not in school.

In August, it was confirmed that famine was present in North Darfur, including in the Zamzam camp for internally displaced people south of the capital, El Fasher. The camp is currently hosting at least 500,000 people who have been displaced from other parts of the country.

Sudan is facing the worst levels of food insecurity in its history, with more than half of its population, 26.5 million people, suffering from acute hunger.

Credible reports, including from the UN, have documented widespread violations of international human rights and humanitarian law by all parties to the conflict, including indiscriminate attacks against civilians, ethnically motivated violence and conflict-related sexual violence.

I will now provide an overview of Canada's response to the crisis.

Canada continues to work with its partners in a number of areas. First, Canada provides humanitarian and development assistance that meets the needs of the people affected by the conflict. Since January 2024, Canada has provided over $100 million in humanitarian assistance to Sudan and neighbouring countries.

In addition, Canada has provided $31.5 million in development assistance to Sudan and neighbouring countries for projects aimed at addressing sexual and gender-based violence, as well as for education in emergency situations.

Second, Canada has maintained a high level of diplomatic engagement on the crisis at different levels and through different fora. For example, Canadian ministers regularly raise the conflict in Sudan in bilateral engagements and with countries in the region as well as in multilateral fora such as at the UN and the G7.

Further, Canada actively engages on Sudan at the UN Human Rights Council, for example, co-sponsoring the resolution in 2023 that created the independent, international fact-finding mission for Sudan, which is mandated to document violations of international human rights and humanitarian law in the interest of pursuing possible measures for accountability and ending impunity.

With the temporary suspension of operations of Canada's embassy to Sudan in Khartoum last April, Canada has shifted its engagement on Sudan to our diplomatic mission in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. This includes deploying new personnel dedicated to Sudan last month.

Third, Minister Joly announced new sanctions under the Special Economic Measures Act in April to address the conflict. Canada has imposed sanctions on six individuals and entities for their direct or indirect involvement in activities undermining peace, security and stability in Sudan, as well as for human rights violations.

Canada continues to closely monitor the situation in Sudan to identify more targets for future action, if required.

Finally, Canada is working actively to support the foundations of any future peace to be inclusive and democratic. Canada recognizes that there can be no durable peace without the meaningful inclusion of civilians, including women and youth, in mediation efforts.

Canada is also supporting Sudanese civilians and civil society organizations to engage in political dialogue efforts, to mitigate the effects of conflicts on civilians at a local level and to protect human rights defenders and women peace builders.

Further, Canada's ambassador for women, peace and security, Jacqueline O'Neill, who is with us today, was in Geneva in August to support U.S.-led efforts to include Sudanese women in the current ceasefire talks.

In conclusion, the situation in Sudan is unlikely to improve in the short term. The longer the fighting lasts, the greater likelihood of increased engagement by other armed groups and by regional players. This is likely to further entrench the conflict and worsen the humanitarian crisis.

As I said, Canada continues to monitor the situation closely.

We continue to find openings for Canada to carry out its actions and use the tools available to mitigate the impact of the conflict on civilians and encourage a path toward peace and stability.

Thank you for your attention.

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Thank you very much, Ms. Delany.

We now open it up to questions by members.

The first member up is MP Chong.

You have five minutes.

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their testimony. I would also like to thank them for being with us.

You mentioned that the government has suspended our mission in Khartoum. I have a couple of questions about that.

Do we have any consular or diplomatic officials on the ground in Sudan?

3:45 p.m.

Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Caroline Delany

No, we do not.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Okay. Do we have any locally engaged staff who are still engaged in Sudan, or are they all on suspension as well?

3:45 p.m.

Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Caroline Delany

Mr. Chair, as the member mentioned, we did suspend operations of the mission in Khartoum. We do not employ anyone through that mission now. There are two Canadian staff working out of the embassy in Addis Ababa, and we are in process of hiring locally engaged staff there who will also work on Sudan.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Of the other missions of G7 countries—the United States, the U.K., France, Germany, Italy and Japan—are any presently in operation in Sudan, or are they also all suspended as well?

3:50 p.m.

Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Caroline Delany

No, from our like-minded groups, there are no open missions in Sudan.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Okay. Are those missions of our closest partners and allies also operating out of Ethiopia?

3:50 p.m.

Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Caroline Delany

There are a fair number. There is a critical mass of missions and ambassadors to Sudan who are based in Addis Ababa, which is one of the reasons we decided to do the same—but not all. I don't have a list here.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

That's okay. I just wanted to get a sense of things. Do you have any sense of when our mission in Sudan will recommence?

3:50 p.m.

Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Caroline Delany

No. It's difficult to say at this point. I would say not in the short to medium term.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Okay.

The other question I have more broadly is what other assets on the ground does Canada have, not just in Sudan, but in the broader region—military assets, other assets—that could be brought to bear to help, along with our partners and allies, to resolve this crisis?

3:50 p.m.

Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Caroline Delany

Mr. Chair, the question with regard to military assets is outside my remit. I won't be able to answer that, so I would refer you to DND.

In terms of Canada's approach, Minister Hussen announced in April approximately $130-million worth of Canadian assistance. This is around $100 million in humanitarian aid and $30-million worth of development financing.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Okay.

When is that money going to flow, over the course of several years or immediately? What's the time frame on the delivery of those monies?

3:50 p.m.

Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Caroline Delany

The $100 million in humanitarian aid is for this year. The $30 million in development assistance is over multiple years. In 2022-23, all of Canada's international assistance in the country averaged around $60 million. On the bilateral development side, in terms of the program that directly targets Sudan, we spend about $9.5 million a year.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

On the humanitarian assistance that has been allocated for Sudan in the future, can you tell us which entities that will be flowing through?

3:50 p.m.

Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Caroline Delany

Sure.

I'll turn it over to my colleague, Ms. Desloges.

Julie Desloges Acting Director, International Humanitarian Assistance, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Thank you.

We work through experienced partners. Some have been identified that are members. We have a mix of NGO partners, and UN organizations such as the World Food Programme and the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. We also have UNHCR—given the levels of displacement in Sudan—as well as Red Cross partners.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

There was an article in this week's New York Times by Nicholas Kristof about the severe famine that could be taking place in Sudan. Specifically, he mentioned the work the World Food Programme is doing there.

Can you tell us how much of that money is going to be apportioned for the World Food Programme?

3:50 p.m.

Acting Director, International Humanitarian Assistance, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Julie Desloges

I would have to return with those specific numbers.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

That would be helpful. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, those are all my questions. Thanks.

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Thank you very much, Mr. Chong.

We now go to MP Chatel.

Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome our witnesses who have come to talk to us about an absolutely catastrophic situation. Women and children are often the first victims of these horrendous wars.

Ms. O'Neill, can you tell us about the work you are doing to defend women and improve their extremely precarious situation?