Evidence of meeting #125 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was israel.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga Centre, ON
How many of our allies that you're aware of among the G20 or European countries have already recognized the State of Palestine?
Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad
Nine out of the G20 have recognized Palestine. Five of the NATO allies have recognized the State of Palestine.
France is studying to recognize the State of Palestine. England is studying to recognize the State of Palestine. Japan is doing the same thing. Belgium is, yes.
A few months ago, Norway, Ireland and Spain recognized Palestine. There are 147 countries that have done so.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga Centre, ON
In the last 20 seconds, what advantages are there for Canada to recognize the State of Palestine?
Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad
It's an advantage for every country that is part of the international community to uphold the international law. We have an obligation in front of us today, as per the ICJ recommendation. We do have a big advantage in establishing peace in the Middle East and putting in that cornerstone in establishing that peace, which starts with the recognition of Palestine.
Liberal
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to thank our witnesses for joining us today and for once again shedding light on this important—though not necessarily straightforward—issue that we are currently studying.
I think I can safely say that everyone around this table believes in the two-state solution. It's because I believe in the two-state solution that I believe in recognizing the state of Palestine. By the same token, I recognize Israel's right to exist, and its right to exist in security.
Earlier, Mr. Fogel suggested that a congruent part of the Jewish community in Canada disagreed with the idea that Israel has the right to exist, and to exist in security.
Mr. Balsam, do you believe that Israel has the right to exist, to exist in security?
National Coordinator, Independent Jewish Voices Canada
Thank you for your question.
Yes, we support Israel's right to exist in peace and security, but no country has the right to practise apartheid or be an oppressive state.
Of course, human rights are for everyone. Therein lies the problem with these comments, however. The notion of recognizing the country as a Jewish country is like recognizing Canada as a white country or a Christian country. No, absolutely not. It's for everyone. What we support is equality and human rights for everyone. There can be two, one or three states, or even a confederation. That is what is important.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
You're injecting something into the equation, because our current study is based on the idea of a two-state solution, that is to say Palestine on one side and Israel on the other.
Do you believe in the two-state solution?
National Coordinator, Independent Jewish Voices Canada
We believe that recognition of the Palestinian state is the first step. Afterwards, there can be negotiations to find a solution to the current situation. As you said, there are 700,000 settlers in the West Bank. Today, it's a very mixed population on both sides. For example, 20% of Israel's population is Palestinian.
How can we guarantee everyone's rights? It's not for me or for us to say, but I believe that giving Palestinians a little power in the negotiations is extremely important.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
We must therefore recognize Palestine, since Israel is already recognized, and engage in negotiations between the two states. Lord knows where these negotiations could lead.
You explained that in direct contradiction to its official discourse and Security Council Resolution 2334, Canada has refused to differentiate in its trade dealings with Israel, thereby allowing Jewish settlements in the occupied territories to benefit from privileged access to the Canadian market.
To be clear, what do you think that means in terms of international law?
National Coordinator, Independent Jewish Voices Canada
It means you're going against international law. Security Council decisions are often blocked by the United States, but that one was adopted. It is crystal clear that products from Israeli settlements should be differentiated.
Liberal
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you.
Dr. Awad, I want to thank you for being here.
I recognize that this has been a devastating year for Palestinians worldwide, including in Canada, who face an ongoing genocide not just in Gaza but obviously in the apartheid system in the occupied territories in the West Bank.
You spoke about the legal implications and the moral imperative. I would like you to take a moment and tell us what the Canadian Palestinian community has experienced this year and what statehood recognition by the Government of Canada would mean to them in this moment.
Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad
Thank you so much for including me in this testimonial.
Canadian Palestinian communities, especially in the last year, have experienced so much anti-Palestinian racism. Anti-Palestinian racism starts by denying the existence of the Palestinian people. The failure of Canada and part of the international community to not recognize the Palestinian state is the first step of not recognizing Palestinians.
As Canadian Palestinians, we have suffered so many incidents, and we saw so many incidents when just trying to speak for human rights and speak about the genocide that is going on and the killing of Palestinian people. Doctors are fired from their hospitals. University professors have been stopped from work, and then they returned back to work because.... We all saw this, and we're still in this mess that we are in.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Is it your testimony that state recognition domestically here in Canada would provide a type of societal legitimacy for those who are advocating for Palestinian rights or, I should say more specifically, facing deep anti-Palestinian racism here in Canada?
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
How has the Canadian Palestinian community advocated with this government?
You'll recall that there was an opposition day motion. Obviously, New Democrats put state recognition on the table. The Liberal government took it off the table at that time.
What impact did that have on the community from your perspective, in terms of seeing your identities and indeed your national identity effectively erased from that particular motion?
Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad
Even before October 7, the Palestinian community had suffered from a policy versus implementation issue.
We had the coalition and we issued a study about policy versus implementation. We shared it with most of Parliament. We state in our foreign policy on our website that we believe in a two-state solution, yet Canada recognizes one state and doesn't recognize the other.
On policy versus implementation, we go to the United Nations and vote against our own policies that we state in our official practice. The Palestinian community has seen this throughout this whole year, and when that part about officially recognizing Palestine was removed from the table, the whole Palestinian community was boiling.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
As somebody who has been actively advocating to this Liberal government, do you feel they're listening to you?
Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad
Again, within the coalition, we're non-partisan. We're going to continue advocacy, pushing the message and speaking with our voices.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'll repeat the question very specifically. Given the fact this Parliament is likely on its last legs, why is there urgency to have this passed now versus perhaps kicking it down the road past a further election?
Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad
Well, first, I think we shouldn't be waiting too long to do the right thing, because this is the right thing. It should have been done a long time ago.
Second, we don't want to wait for another year, because then the new Parliament, the new government that is going to come in, is going to start from scratch.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you.
We now go to the second round.
MP Epp, you have three minutes.
Conservative
Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here.
Just as a side comment, I will take Mr. Green at his word that we're in our last days, but let's go back to the subject at hand.
Lasting peace is the goal is around this table. That has been the goal of the international community and of the Israeli and Palestinian peoples. It has long been Canada's position, and our allies' position, that we support a two-state solution that's a result of negotiations between both parties—and this is where I want to focus some of my questions—that enjoys popular support from both the Israelis and the Palestinians. This is the only way to lead to lasting peace.
This is not a phenomenon that's limited to Israel or Palestine; it's a phenomenon we've experienced here in our own country. Constitutional deals made by leaderships did not survive—think of Meech Lake and Charlottetown—because they did not end up enjoying popular support across our own country. Fortunately, here we haven't had the consequences of death and destruction that both the Israelis and the Palestinian people have suffered.
I want to focus on that mechanism, first of all, of popular support. Whether you agree or disagree with the route of the Israeli government, there are elections coming up in 2026, so there's a mechanism in place for the Israeli people to express their will through a process that's self-determined. I heard from the testimony today the importance of self-determination.
From the Palestinian people's perspective, who speaks for Palestine? What is the process that leads to a lasting peace? Surveys have shown that 40% of the Palestinian people support the two-state solution. What is the mechanism that you or your organization would advocate as the voice of the Palestinian people to lead toward peace?
Maybe we'll start with Mr. Bueckert.