Evidence of meeting #125 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was israel.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad
Thank you.
Who speaks for Palestine? The Palestinian people, who are educated. There is a Palestine National Council today. Give us a space to breathe, and you will see wonders from the Palestinian people. Go to every university. You'll see university professors who are willing to sit down and formulate a whole system.
However, when you are living under occupation, it's as though you are tied down and literally cannot go from Kanata to downtown Ottawa without passing a checkpoint. Do you expect me to tell you who represents the Palestinian people? The PLO is established and is there. The Palestine National Council is there. The Palestinian Legislative Council exists. It needs reform, yes—we all agree on that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you.
For the last question, we go to MP Chatel. You have three minutes.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Canadians are watching this war, this tragedy, and they want to see their government stand up for peace and human dignity. That's quite clear. That's what I hear in my community. It is very difficult for Canadians to understand how we can move forward with a two-state situation when one of the two states is not recognized. Some people seem to be in a quandary. On the one hand, Palestine cannot fully function as a state without being recognized, and on the other hand, it cannot be recognized without demonstrating that it functions as a state. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.
Mr. Awad, could Canada's recognition of the Palestinian state strengthen Canada's position as a promoter of human rights and the peaceful resolution of conflicts? This would bring Canada in line with its more traditional role as a mediator in international conflicts.
Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad
Thank you. I was just listening to the interpretation.
Yes, again, definitely, recognizing Palestine will put Canada back at the forefront of international diplomacy. It will promote peace. More importantly, we will be doing our due diligence towards international law and the international community, which we've always stood for.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
Mr. Bueckert, as a human rights defender, do you believe Canada's position as a defender of human rights would be strengthened by that recognition?
Vice President, Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East
Yes, I think so.
Again, I don't think that this is the only action that Canada needs to take to demonstrate that it is taking a leadership role.
You know, Canada's reputation is affected by this. Canada lost a couple of bids to join the UN Security Council, partly because of its decision to side with the U.S. and Israel on these matters against the rest of the international community. There's a good chance that it will continue on that path.
Countries that have actually won seats—Ireland and Norway—are leading the way. They recognize Palestine. Ireland is moving forward with a possible ban on trade with settlements. They're really leading the way and showing that....
These aren't the big, powerful countries, but they're making a name for themselves and they're earning a lot of respect by actually putting action behind their words. Canada could be one of these countries. It doesn't have to be a junior partner to the U.S. or only do whatever Israel wants. It can chart its own path.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I'm wondering if you can invite the witnesses, should there be any additional information they didn't get to provide today in this short period, to submit it in writing for the benefit of the study.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Absolutely. Yes, we always extend that invitation to anyone who appears before us. If there's any additional information you would like to submit, then certainly feel free to do so. It would certainly be of assistance to all of us.
Go ahead, MP Bergeron.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Mr. Chair, could we ask for unanimous consent to give our colleague Mike Morrice two minutes so that he can also—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
I would like ask a question myself, Mr. Bergeron. I very seldom do so. We have two minutes remaining. I'm grateful to the witnesses for having appeared.
As you can imagine, every witness we have heard from so far has said that they very much would favour a peace process in the Middle East, but what does trouble me is that we have not seen a peace proposal from the Government of Israel since 2008.
I was wondering if each of you could briefly tell us why you think that is.
Vice President, Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East
As I mentioned in my presentation, Canada has demonstrated to Israel that there are no consequences for maintaining the status quo. For Israel, the status quo is completely acceptable, but for Palestinians, it means that everybody is stateless, without rights, dispossessed and subject to horrifying violence. It's not acceptable. Either they have a state or they have equal rights within a democratic state. It's one or the other. The current status quo is not an option.
If Canada is committed to two states, it has to actually force it to happen, because most people think that the idea is dead or on its way out.
Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad
Israel has made it clear that it has no intention of respecting the ICJ ruling. Israel has made it clear that it has no intention of respecting international law. Israel is now planning to take over northern Gaza and re-establish settlements in northern Gaza. Since July, Israel has, as I mentioned earlier, seized the largest amount of land.... I think what we are seeing right now is the absence of the international community holding Israel accountable for these actions.
National Coordinator, Independent Jewish Voices Canada
Thank you.
Israel has no reason to pursue peace in its own interest right now without pressure. There's no real pressure, and I think we're seeing the consequence of that impunity play out right now in the region.
For a very long time, Israel had a policy of negotiating while at the same time making sure, through the construction of settlements, that a Palestinian state would not be possible. That was said openly in the Knesset among Israeli politicians. It was acknowledged that it was okay to let Tzipi Livni or someone else go to the negotiating table, but that if the government were to actually pursue a Palestinian state, they would make the government fall. That's been the approach.
Israel needs to feel a pressure in order to actually move on this.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Well, thank you very much. We're very grateful for your time, for your perspectives and for your expertise.
Before we turn to you, Mr. Bergeron, I want to make sure that there's unanimous consent for us to adopt the the subcommittee budgets in the amounts of $1,250 for the study targeting civil society in Venezuela, $6,500 for the study of forced migration, $2,750 for the study of the implementation of Canada's universal periodic review, and $5,000 for the study of transnational repression in developing democracies. Is everyone okay with that?
(Motions agreed to)
Excellent.
Go ahead, Mr. Bergeron.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Mr. Chair, I would like to ask you again to request unanimous consent so that our colleague Mike Morrice can ask questions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Is there unanimous consent for Mr. Green?
You have two minutes, Mr. Green.
Green
Mike Morrice Green Kitchener Centre, ON
I thank Mr. Bergeron and all my colleagues for giving me this opportunity.
My question would be to return to some of the remarks we've heard.
A number of academics and in fact all three panellists here have said that the right time to recognize two states is now. There is no possibility of a two-state solution without recognizing that there are two states.
In the previous panel, we had some put forward the idea that there should be conditions. That's what the foreign affairs minister has also most recently said. I asked the question to those panellists who put that question forward. I think we'd really benefit from hearing your perspective.
Dr. Awad, maybe you can start. If I have time, Mr. Balsam can go next.
What is your response to those who say there should be conditions before Palestine can be recognized as a state?
