Foreign Affairs Committee on Aug. 4th, 2022

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First off, I'd like to thank all the ambassadors for taking the time to join us today.

I also want to take the time to commend Germany and the EU for their transition to clean energy and for their solidarity in standing alongside so many allies with Ukraine as we continue to impose sanctions and stand alongside our allies to support Ukraine in this very difficult time.

Ambassador Gabrič, as you know from our previous conversations, we spoke about how Canada can help to deliver clean energy to the European Union and our allies. I want to hear more about the situation with coal-fired plants in Europe right now. We know it's going to be a tough winter ahead, and it's something that I know you're looking into.

I also want to ask if you can elaborate on the short- and medium-term issues facing the EU should Russia shut off its gas supplies.

[Melita Gabrič]

Indeed, the European Union is actually preparing for potential possible further disruptions of energy supplies from the Russian side. To this end, as I mentioned, we have a plan to phase out our dependency on Russian energy sources altogether. This plan is called REPowerEU. It actually envisages the diversification of our energy supplies and accelerating deployment of renewable energy sources, which we have been doing at great speed. We are also strengthening our energy efficiency. Energy-saving efforts are a big part of this plan, at this point, as a very immediate effect. We've decided to reduce 15% of our gas consumption demand in solidarity with one another within the European Union among member states but also in solidarity, of course, with Ukraine.

We are looking for alternatives and more secure supplies from reliable partners, such as Canada, while fast-forwarding the green transition. We've been working very closely and intensely on finding these avenues through which we can co-operate with Canada to find concrete and viable areas for our co-operation, to identify the needs of the EU or match the needs with the capacity of Canada, to identify the challenges, and to also come up with a plan on how to proceed along this line.

Of course, the conversation on energy co-operation is ongoing, including through the EU-Canada high-level energy dialogue. There are options for mid- to long-term energy co-operation on the table.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that, Your Excellency.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

I think you're down to your last 10 seconds.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

That's fine. I'll wrap it up.

Thank you so much, Ambassador. I appreciate it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Mr. Bergeron, you have two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the EU ambassador, Ms. Gabrič.

Your Excellency, you were very careful in your opening statement to point out that the European Union had taken great care not to impose sanctions that could jeopardize the energy supply of EU countries.

When you saw the Government of Canada put in place its sanctions regime, did you caution it about what might happen, knowing that turbine maintenance was scheduled?

[H.E. Melita Gabrič]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Bergeron.

Actually, as I explained in my opening remarks that you referred to, the repatriation of turbines is not in contravention of the EU sanctions regime, because the goods and technology linked to the transport of natural gas are not affected by EU sanctions, and neither is Nord Stream 1 affected by these sanctions. Certainly, I think that answers your question.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Yes, except I was more interested in whether, seeing that Canada's sanctions might affect the turbines, you had warned Canada about this situation so that we wouldn't have to deal with this unfortunate situation now.

[Melita Gabrič]

Not that I am aware of. I would also venture to say that this would not be something that would be a prerogative of the EU.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Since we see that this was ultimately only a pretext on Putin's part and that the European Commission has said that the return of this turbine removes a pretext, why maintain this permit?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Mr. Bergeron, I'm sorry; we're at two and a half minutes. Perhaps you could submit your question in writing to the clerk and get an answer that way.

Ms. McPherson, you have the floor for two and half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Ms. Gabrič could indeed send her response to the committee members in writing.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Yes. Is that acceptable? Thank you.

Ms. McPherson, you have the floor for two and a half minutes, and that will wrap up the witness portion of the meeting.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, thank you to the ambassadors for being here.

I guess what I will end with today is to say that, ultimately, what has happened with the result of this waiver is that we still have no energy supply, which is necessary, going to Germany. We are still in the exact same situation, unfortunately, and we just have an undermined sanctions regime, but we do still want to ensure that Germany has the support it requires to get through the winter and to manage its energy crisis.

I would ask Ambassador Sparwasser if she could please comment on what Canada could do to help Germany more right now. Solutions to help in the short term, I think, are what we're looking for.

[Sabine Sparwasser]

Thank you so much, Ms. McPherson.

The Canadian side is helping by backfilling as much as possible into the U.S. effort to provide Germany with more LNG. We have been receiving from a lot of our allies—Norway, Netherlands, the U.S. and others—quite a bit more LNG. We've been importing it. We're building up LNG ports very fast.

In the medium term, in the long term, Canada can be a very important supplier for our energy security. Canada can be one of the countries that allows us to pursue our two goals: to become independent of Russian energy and fight climate change to become carbon neutral. We see Canada as a prime partner working on transitional energy, maybe on LNG, but mostly working on hydrogen. We are actively right now pursuing talks with the government, with provincial governments and with companies. This is a very big target for us to achieve as soon as possible.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Ambassador.

I'd like to end with Ambassador Kovaliv.

Ambassador, what would you like to see Canada do? How can Canada support Ukraine more at this time? I'd like to give you the final word for this session.

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

Thank you.

Given this opportunity, I would like to thank everybody for devoting your time to this particular matter, for the Canadian government's steadfast support, for Canadians who are helping Ukraine, standing with Ukraine and helping those Ukrainians who fled the war and came to Canada. It's very important.

The war is going on. It's very important for all of us, the Government of Canada, the EU, the Government of Germany and other allies—to continue this support because we need to win this war, not only for us as a country but also for everybody, those of us who have democracies.

We do value the support of all our partners. We are fighting hard on the battlefield. We do count on further support and further standing with Ukraine until our victory. Thank you for standing with us.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Thank you, Ambassador.

I can say, in my brief time as a member of Parliament since 2019, that I've never seen Parliament as unified and steadfast on any issue as this. Our hearts and minds are certainly with you.

As one of the ambassadors said earlier—I'm sorry, I can't recall which one—this is a debate among very good friends. I think that's the spirit in which this meeting was conducted.

I want to thank you all very much for answering our questions and for your patience with our system in terms of how we time the allocation of rounds. I know it's a little annoying from time to time.

With that, I think we can release our witnesses.

Again, thank you very, very much for being here.

Now I see a hand up.

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I was going to suggest we have a quick conversation about when we're going to meet next, because we had talked about a number of different witness panels we wanted to hear on this subject. I think maybe rather than having a stand-alone meeting again to discuss committee business, it might be good to just have an exchange for five minutes to figure out where we want to go.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Chair, I have a point of order, if I can interject, please.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Sure, Mr. Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Chair, we're now at 5:18. We've gone past the five o'clock time. We asked for 15 minutes of extra time, it was unanimous consent, and we went over the time. I move that we adjourn the meeting now, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

On that point of order, Mr. Chair, a member can't move a motion when they don't have the floor.

You're allowed to raise a point of order, but you can't move a motion on a point of order.