Evidence of meeting #25 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was energy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:40 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Mr. Chair, I think our colleague Mr. Zuberi has raised an extremely valid point. Our party will hold a caucus meeting on Wednesday and Thursday, if memory serves. Yes, I think caucus meetings should be taken into account. Therefore, I believe we're going to need to amend Mr. Genuis's motion.
I move that we write “in the days following”.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you for that amendment, Mr. Bergeron.
We will now go to Mr. Zuberi.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but just on a point of order, there's an amendment on the floor, but I don't quite understand the specific language of that amendment. Maybe there's a translation issue, but just which words are being removed and which words are being added? Could that be clarified?
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
3:40 p.m.
The Clerk
Yes, of course. Mr. Bergeron can correct me because it's his amendment.
Here's what I understood: “That the committee meet in public within a few days of the adoption of this motion for a discussion of committee business related to the study of the Export of Russian Gazprom Turbines”.
The motion would therefore be amended by substituting the words “within seven days” with the words “in the days following”.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thank you.
I'd like to propose a subamendment or whatever the procedure says. Essentially, I like the idea that Mr. Bergeron is mentioning.
However, I would like us to specify the number of days.
That is really to pick up on the spirit of what Garnett is mentioning. I would suggest that it be within the next 14 days, given that next week will be taken up by caucus meetings of various parties. That will allow us to keep the intent of Mr. Genuis's motion, which is to have it within seven working days that we actually have free. That's what I would suggest.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Does anyone want to speak to this issue? Seeing none, we will put the subamendment to a vote now.
Madam Clerk, could you, just for clarity's sake, kindly provide the language for the subamendment as well?
3:40 p.m.
The Clerk
The vote would be on the subamendment, which reads as follows:
That the committee meet in public within 14 days following the adoption of this motion for a discussion of committee business related to the study of the export of Russian Gazprom turbines.
(Subamendment agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.
To save time, I suspect you'd find unanimous consent to deem the amendment and the motion adopted, rather than have us go through the votes again.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Is everyone okay with that?
(Amendment as amended agreed to)
(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Excellent.
The subamendment has been adopted, so we will be meeting in the next 14 days on that particular note.
There is only one time slot left to question our witnesses, who have been patiently waiting.
Ms. Bendayan, you have four minutes.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I thank the witnesses very much. I'm sorry to have kept them waiting.
I'm particularly interested in comments that you made in your testimony, Mr. Schmitt. You talked about the importance of our unity, as allies, in our response to Russia.
To me, that is fundamental, and I'd like to hear what you have to say about it. In light of recent developments on the political scene, can you talk about how important it is to you that unity be maintained? I'm thinking in particular of what happened in Italy, but also of the discussions that took place earlier this summer in Germany. Mr. Putin is clearly trying to divide us at all costs. He's trying to divide NATO, the European Union and the G7. Can you tell us how important unity among the allies is to you?
Feel free to answer in English, Mr. Schmitt.
3:45 p.m.
Research Associate, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and Ukrainian Research Institute, Harvard University, As an Individual
Thank you, Ms. Bendayan.
I think your question is absolutely spot-on, and it's incredibly important that we maintain unity.
Obviously, as I said earlier, the success that Ukraine will need to have in order to win the war and restore full territorial integrity and sovereignty over its territory.... It's paramount that all democracies stand united against Russian aggression, both in Ukraine and in hybrid warfare, whether that aggression is in cyber-attacks, disinformation, propaganda, energy weaponization or using space assets in ways that are concerning to global security.
What we have to do is make sure that sanctions stay united. When we have these sorts of situations where, over the years, Russia has basically built energy infrastructure and used it to split allies, we have to look at where the unity was on projects like Nord Stream 2. Over the years, all of NATO's eastern flank at one point or another opposed and called for this project to be stopped. The United States—both Democrats and Republicans, both administrations and on Capital Hill—called for this project to be stopped. When I was in my role as European energy security adviser at State, I visited Ottawa in 2018. Global Affairs Canada had also come out as opposed to Nord Stream 2. The United Kingdom and France, at times, have opposed Nord Stream 2, as have a number of countries throughout the Nordic region. Basically, the only countries that supported Nord Stream 2 were Germany, Austria and, of course, Russia.
When you have examples where the European Parliament, on a nearly unanimous basis, or at least with extreme majorities, on at least three occasions called for this project to be stopped over the years.... For that to continue to go forward and for Germany to pressure the United States to suspend its sanctions and then pressure Canada to suspend its sanctions.... That's a slightly different situation, but in this case, on the Nord Stream 1 turbines, those are the sorts of actions that we need to avoid as global democracies.
We need to continue to mount as much pressure as possible on the Putin regime, so that democratic norms and sovereignty will be restored in Ukraine. It will become more resilient, going forward, in standing up to authoritarian aggression, whether it comes from Russia, China or elsewhere.
Merci.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
I have only a few seconds left, Dr. Schmitt.
It's been reported that Russia acquired attack drones from Iran and now is looking to buy artillery ammunition from North Korea. In the time we have left, can you briefly comment on what this might suggest? Is Russia running out of ammunition?
3:45 p.m.
Research Associate, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and Ukrainian Research Institute, Harvard University, As an Individual
This suggests that the technology-calibrated sanctions that have been put in place against dual-use technologies are working. Russia is now having to look to other authoritarian nations—Tehran and Pyongyang, among others—to backfill its military equipment. This is why we need to continue to have this united approach, to maintain sanctions and to not have more sanction waivers. Increasing sanctions on a weekly, if not daily basis has to continue in order to make sure Ukraine succeeds.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
Research Associate, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and Ukrainian Research Institute, Harvard University, As an Individual
Yes, it absolutely does.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much, Dr. Schmitt and all the witnesses.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Allow me to thank all of our three witnesses, who have been incredibly gracious with their time, their knowledge and their expertise.
We obviously started later than had originally been scheduled. We stayed on longer than anyone would have anticipated. Thank you very much. You have certainly provided each member of this committee with a lot of food for thought. Thank you for your time.
As I understand it, we're going to the budget. Is that correct, Madam Clerk?
3:50 p.m.
The Clerk
You can do the budget, but you can also do it at the next meeting.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Mr. Chair, I move the adoption of the budget.
3:50 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.