Foreign Affairs Committee on Sept. 28th, 2022

[Andrew Turner]

I can assure you that opening the embassy as soon as possible is a priority and we are putting all our efforts into achieving this. This is a priority directive directly from Minister Joly.

Even with an embassy in Yerevan, as is the case with our allies who are already there, there are still limits to what you can see of the situation on the borders which are in a safe zone. We no longer have the presence of the OSCE mission, the Organization for Security and Co‑operation in Europe, which was there before, to give more independent reports.

It is important to have an embassy, it would give us more contacts. However, even the embassies that are there at the moment have difficulty knowing what is happening directly in the conflict zone.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I am willing to acknowledge what you are telling us, but Mr. Chong was pointing out a few moments ago that some of our allies seem to have much more up‑to‑date information than we seem to have in order to determine who launched these new hostilities, not only on the territory of Nagorno‑Karabakh, but also on the sovereign territory of Armenia, I might add.

[Andrew Turner]

For us, too, it is very clear that the attacks and assaults on the territory of Armenia are a new and very worrying development. It is for this reason that Minister Joly has expressly spoken on this point in her public comments and in her discussions with her counterparts in Armenia and Azerbaijan.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you. We now go to Mr. Cannings.

Mr. Cannings, welcome to the committee. You have six minutes, sir.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you. It's an honour to be here.

This is obviously such a complex situation. It was complex before the last hostilities broke out. It's been going on for years, and here we have conflict as peace negotiations are going on. As I understand it, we have a conflict that's happening within the wider concerns of the conflict that Russia has brought upon Ukraine, a conflict that other powers, such as Turkey, are involved in.

What I'm trying to understand from the Canadian perspective is what an at least acceptable and perhaps ideal peace agreement would look like from a Canadian perspective or from the perspectives of both Armenia and Azerbaijan. What are they looking for and what do you think would be acceptable to them, and what are the prospects of, hopefully, coming up with a peaceful agreement without further conflict?

[Andrew Turner]

From Canada's perspective, the ideal agreement would be one that satisfies both Armenia and Azerbaijan. They are the two parties involved. They are the ones who need to sit down and come to an agreement, so the international community, through whatever mechanism—the OSCE Minsk Group, the efforts of the EU, or something through the UN—or whatever channel, including with Canada, would be there to support and create the conditions that would allow that bilateral discussion to take place.

The specifics would be up to the two countries to decide. Obviously it's a very difficult issue. It has been going on for decades, as you say, but what we have grounds for optimism on is that both countries, both governments, have explicitly stated that they are interested in resolving it, given that one impact of the conflict has been to change some of the dynamics that had been frozen. In many ways Nagorno-Karabakh was almost the stereotypical example of a frozen conflict. While there is still much work to be done, the two sides are actively discussing the parameters for a permanent settlement.

Again, there is always a risk of these flare-ups and these tensions, and that's why I think it's important for Canada and for all of our allies to continue to reinforce to both sides the need to avoid violence, to keep de-escalating so that there is time for that peace agreement to be reached.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Considering that one of the main concerns in this latest conflict is the fact that Azerbaijan was attacking Armenian territory, are there any immediate and perhaps intermediate timeline concerns about certain vulnerable populations? Are there certain ethnic groups within that area that might be targeted, or women and children? What are the real concerns there?

[Andrew Turner]

I think the overall concern is simply the risk of further violence, which could have tragic consequences for all of the groups you have mentioned. Even if the conflict were limited to purely military targets, that in and of itself would be tragic, but the risk of damaging civilians of whatever background is something we want to try to see avoided if at all possible. That's why we continue to emphasize the importance of moving forward with dialogue efforts.

One very specific thing that is one of the causes of these flare-ups is the uncertain situation of the border. One of the causes for optimism in recent months has been that the two countries have sat down on several occasions to have discussions about clear border demarcation, because that has the potential to make the resolution over the longer term much more positive, as well as limit the risks of any disagreements or confusion over the situation, as it currently stands, spilling over into conflict.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You have one minute and 15 seconds.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

There's one question I have that is kind of peripheral to this, but I'm interested. We're talking about Azerbaijan and its energy exports to compensate for the loss of Russian natural gas. On what routes does that take place? This is a landscape that's quite fraught with difficulties of many sorts. I'm just wondering what route those energy exports would travel and if there's any issue around this conflict that might be a hazard to them.

[Andrew Turner]

Azerbaijan has quite extensive energy reserves and transports them in a variety of means, so the impact of conflict specifically in Nagorno-Karabakh would be more limited. The risks to broader energy disruption come much more for the broader regional tensions, including most obviously the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but again, Azerbaijan uses pipelines, ship transportation.... There are various mechanisms that it uses.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I'll end my questions there. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We'll now go to the second round. Mr. Genuis, you have five minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

I want to just put a really fine point on this. Mr. Chong raised these issues.

Is there a difference between Canada's position and, say, the U.S. position with respect to this latest round of conflict? Does Canada agree with all of the statements the U.S. has made, or does Canada have a different position than the U.S. on this conflict?

[Andrew Turner]

Canada is fully aligned with the U.S. and is like-minded in terms of the statements that have been made as to the importance of resolving the conflict, avoiding—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry. I want to sharpen this, though, because, respectfully, it sounds like you're choosing your words carefully but not necessarily directly answering my question.

My question isn't about general alignment. Does Canada agree with all the statements that the U.S. has made with respect to this or does Canada have a different position than the U.S. or disagree with some of the statements the U.S. has made?

[Andrew Turner]

Canada does not disagree with any of the statements that the U.S. administration has made. Again, no. The short answer is yes, we would agree with the U.S. position.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Perfect. That's a good answer. Thank you.

Is the same true in terms of the French position?

[Andrew Turner]

For all of the statements I have seen, yes, I would say we're fully aligned with the French position.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

The U.S., France and the U.K. have all expressed the view that Azerbaijani aggression was the cause of this current round of conflict, and they have called on the Azerbaijani army to return to their initial position. Based on your original answer, I'm assuming that position is Canada's position as well. Is that correct?

[Andrew Turner]

I don't know that we have explicitly referred to troop movements; however, we have consistently referenced the importance of respecting the ceasefire agreement, which had the troop positions spelled out. While I don't believe we've made any explicit statement, by our support of the ceasefire agreement, then yes, that would be the case.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm aware that Canada hasn't made an explicit statement on this, but I guess what I'm trying to clarify is that even though Canada hasn't made an explicit statement, does Canada agree with the statements that have been made by our allies saying, first, that Azerbaijani aggression was the cause of the current round—the Azerbaijani side crossing out of those positions marked in the ceasefire agreement—and, second, that the Azeri side should return to those specific positions?

I gather that the answer is yes, but I just want to confirm again that Canada's position is to agree with those statements that have been made by our allies.

[Andrew Turner]

We certainly would agree with the importance of troops returning to the positions.

On the first point, just given the uncertainty of what specific trigger this round of conflict....

We have expressed our concern about the Azerbaijani shelling of Armenian territory, particularly the civilian areas beyond it, so that is something that Azerbaijan has done that we have expressed concern about. In terms of the question of what happened that triggered this and where the provocation came from, given we don't have visibility on the specifics in that area, it's not something that we have made any.... We are not in a position to be able to assess that.