Foreign Affairs Committee on April 18th, 2023

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I think that there is a lot of support within the room for us to make some changes to the legislation. I don't think that there is support for the Liberals' amendment at this point. It is too broad. It is too overarching. I do think that perhaps we could have a short recess to just sort of talk through some of the amendments, but I also would be interested in knowing, Mr. Chair, if you've received any information that there may be challenges with any other of the amendments to this particular clause.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes, there have been a number of other amendments that have been ruled out of scope by the legislative clerk.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Could you provide a little bit more detail about which amendments are going to be ruled out of scope? I think that is relevant because it will make a difference in how we choose to go forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Let me turn to the legislative clerk.

The legislative clerk has advised that the routine approach to this is that an amendment has to be moved before any such information can be provided.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

In the interest of producing the best piece of legislation we can, would you be willing to give us a two-minute suspension of the meeting so that we can discuss it further?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Absolutely. I'll give you five minutes if need be.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Your five minutes is 10 minutes, so let's do my two minutes, which is your five minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

That's fair enough. We'll suspend for two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Go ahead, Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to propose an amendment to G-1. I will read what the amendment would be:

That Bill C-281, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 12 on page 1 to line 2 on page 2 with the following:

“in every calendar year, a report that includes

(a) an outline of the measures that the Minister has taken to advance human rights internationally as part of Canada's foreign policy;

(b) a list that sets out the following information relating to prisoners who are detained or experiencing other treatment in contravention of international human rights standards and for whose release the Government of Canada is actively working:

(i) the number of prisoners detained by each government or detaining authority,

(ii) the circumstances of the detentions, and

(iii) the efforts that the Government of Canada has made to visit prisoners and to attend their trials or hearings, including the number of requests made for such visits and the responses of the detaining governments or authorities”.

Mr. Chair, I'm bringing this forward because I think what we see in this room is that the government has brought forward an amendment that would take out the obligation to provide a list. We agree that we need to protect the safety of those who might be on that list. I think nobody in this room wants to see prisoners or detainees harmed because they were included on the list. However, this does give us more of the information we require so that we as parliamentarians are able to do our job and that families are able to get the information they require.

This is very much based on some of the testimony we heard. Changing that list of names to the number of prisoners detained was suggested by Alex Neve. This is because of the fear that naming the prisoners could cause harm. It also gives us more accountability to those families, and that is something that we heard was sorely lacking with the government response to date.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, just on a point of order, could we get clarity on the text of the subamendment? Is it the same as the text of...?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

It is, Chair. I apologize.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Give it one more time.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

It is as follows:

(c) a description of the efforts that the Minister has made to improve consistency and transparency in human rights advocacy and to improve accountability to the families of those detained and to civil society.”

My apologies, sir.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I have a point of order that is not debate. This is a point of order maybe following on Mr. Genuis' point of order.

My problem is that it is presented as an amendment to the bill as it stands in clause 2, and yet now it doesn't really make sense because it's amending G-1.

I am having trouble rationalizing between the amendment of G-1 and the amendment of NDP-1 as though it's an amendment to G-1. I think this doesn't really work, because G-1 starts replacing from line 9, so that part would be removed, but the problem is that NDP-1 starts replacing from line 12. That's just one of the examples of the problem.

We're not necessarily opposed to it, but I would like you to rule on whether it's actually a subamendment—an amendment to the amendment—and whether or not it is in order in its scope.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.

That's a very fair point. I understand the legislative clerk would like to speak to the technicalities of the issue as well.

[Philippe Méla, Legislative Clerk]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To Ms. McPherson, I had a question for you regarding your subamendment. Your subamendment should amend G-1 in one way or another. It seems that your subamendment is actually amending the text of the bill, but not G-1. That was the point that Mr. Oliphant was making, and I had the same issue with your subamendment.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would be removing paragraph 4, the “at least once in every calendar year” in G-1, and then I would be replacing it with “in every calendar year, a report that includes.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We'll turn to the legislative clerk once again.

[Philippe Méla]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. McPherson, that would not be considered a subamendment because you are replacing the amendment of the government by your own. The course of action would be to defeat the government amendment first and then propose your amendment after that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Go ahead, Mr. Zuberi.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Chair, I have a question, a point of order.

I'm just curious. If this amendment succeeds, will it be in scope in relation to the legislation?

I mean the subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

It's out of order. It does not exist.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

It's out of order. My apologies. That's cool. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Did you want to ask the legislative clerk a question?