Foreign Affairs Committee on May 2nd, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We will now go to the next member. We will go to MP Zuberi.

You have six minutes, MP Zuberi.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Minister, for being here today, and to your officials and your entire department for the excellent work you are doing to help Canada to give back to the rest of the world. It's actually an important obligation for us as a G7 nation. We need to give back to the world, and I want to sincerely thank you and your team for doing that.

I know you've been quite active in this current Parliament, in the last year or so, visiting different parts of the world to ensure that our development assistance has been well delivered. Before I get into questions, I do want to salute you for the work you've done in Bangladesh; to deal with refugee education in Pakistan; and to address climate change, when you visited the Philippines and Senegal—again to ensure that we are giving back to the world. That's extremely important work.

You touched upon climate change. Your visit to Pakistan also addressed the issue of climate change. Can you share with us and help us understand how climate change will become an increasingly important issue? How will it impact communities and millions of people in the world, in the global south? What we are doing to mitigate climate change and help people adapt to it?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you very much for the question.

Sadly, I would say that climate change is already impacting and has been impacting the developing world quite extensively. The most recent examples of this have been the floods in Pakistan and disasters—typhoons—in the Philippines, and, as you know, many places in Africa.

Canada, through its climate adaptation funding and, most recently, biodiversity funding, is doing its part to help nations that had very little impact in creating the crisis to deal with its impacts, not only in responding directly to the disasters, but also in looking at how we can put in early warning systems and at making sure we can provide humanitarian support and then ultimately trying to mitigate some of those disasters. Some of these programs have had very good effects in some parts of the world.

Sadly, some of these disasters are hitting other areas that we hadn't anticipated, but now, through our funding, we will look at opportunities for how we can try to protect and save people's lives but also their livelihoods. For example, agricultural fields are being completely flooded in some areas. In other parts of the country, it's because of drought. We are taking measures on how we deal with this, because ultimately what we're trying to do is deal with the impacts on food security as well.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

You touched on food security. What are we doing to help shore up food security? We are one of the key funders of the World Food Programme, an amazing UN agency that is helping to ensure people have basic nutrition so that they can continue on with their lives and develop fully as global citizens. What are we doing to help shore up food security on the global stage?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

For food security, it's a multidimensional approach.

One is that where there's a need, you have to provide direct humanitarian support, something that we have been doing in having to increase our support. In fact, we had to increase our support last year in an off-cycle budget request, which the Prime Minister announced, of $250 million. Some of the funding went to Ukraine, but the majority of it was for the global south.

What we're trying to do now is increase our support on building capacity within nations, working with nations, especially in Africa, to look at their own country plans and to look at what their vision is and how we support them. I also want to emphasize that this is not just about increasing agricultural food products or the blue economy. This is about creating food systems. Where do you grow the food? The storage is a key component. Right now, 30% of food is lost because of lack of storage or of transportation. Also, through this, how do we create sustainable jobs?

We're looking at the entire food system and looking at other barriers to what we can do. Sometimes there are trade barriers. How do we support nations on trade?

It's a multi-faceted approach that we're taking, but ultimately what we want to do is look at building capacity. This has worked well in other parts of the world, especially in the Pacific in previous decades, and is something that now we're emphasizing in other parts of the world.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Certainly, and I recently participated in a really great meeting with the World Food Programme. They had a representative from the Middle East, North Africa, Turkey and Palestine. They helped us to understand the important work that's being done to help people be food secure as a way to help with global peace and stability, which you alluded to in your earlier remarks in terms of how international development actually helps with global peace and security and helps mitigate conflict.

Do you want to elaborate a bit upon that?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you.

This is something that I think all of us should be emphasizing even more. When we look at conflict, we can usually find a root cause that started the ripple effect or allowed nefarious groups to recruit people into organizations, usually because of hunger.

Because of the hunger crisis right now, I've been deeply concerned about potential crises, whether it's the food protests that took place in Syria that led to the rise of Daesh within the region or other issues like this in other parts of the world. When you make people's lives better, when food is there and you can look after their health, it insulates them from factors that lead to instability.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, and that's—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much.

We will go to the next member.

MP Bergeron, you have six minutes, sir.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here with us today.

In your mandate letter, the Prime Minister of Canada set out as your objective to increase international development assistance every year towards 2030—

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, the translation just gave way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

My apologies for that, Mr. Bergeron. Is everything okay, Madam Clerk? Is everything in order?

Go ahead, please.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Minister, that's what I like to call the “translation break”.

In your mandate letter, the Prime Minister set out as your objective to increase Canada's international development assistance every year towards 2030, in order to realize the United Nations' sustainable development goals. I would remind you that donor countries have been given a target of 0.7% of their gross domestic product.

However, in the last federal budget, the government indicated that 15% of the international assistance budget would be used elsewhere. You were quoted by Radio‑Canada saying that money wasn't everything and that it wasn't enough to simply announce funding, but also to ensure that the right programs were in place in order to get the desired results.

My question is very simple, Minister: do you still believe that the target of 0.7% of gross domestic product is an objective that we should reach and that we should strive to reach? Do you still intend on hitting that target?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'm here to assure everyone on this committee that our government is committed to increasing our international development assistance. It's something that we announced in the throne speech and also most recently in the budget.

We know the importance of the work that we do, and we will continue in the years to come to look at a plan to increase international development.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

You spent a lot of time in your opening statement talking about the food crisis. Canada responded to the global food and nutrition crisis with support totalling $250 million, concentrating on Sub-Saharan Africa, but that funding dried up on March 31, 2023.

How do you reconcile the priority that you seem to be giving to ease the food and nutrition crisis and the fact that we are reducing budgets for food aid, particularly given the current situation, with supply problems caused by the war in Ukraine?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, Canada will always step up at times of crisis. If you will recall, that $250 million was not in the original budget. That was requested because of the need to make sure that we got people through this year.

We do have funding that we provide for food security within our current budget. We are also working on a wider plan on how we can do our part to increase capacity within many nations. That plan is still being worked on, and once we have that, this is something we will bring through cabinet for greater work.

Money is important, and our government is committed, but we also need to make sure that we have a plan to meet the results we want.

Some of the work is not just about increasing food capacity or giving food. What we want to do is look at some of the research—for example, some of the research that is done in Nairobi that we fund. A lot of the food and beans that are being developed there are more nutritious. I'm always reminded by my nutrition colleagues not to focus just on food; it has to be nutritious food.

Sadly, in some places like a refugee camp I visited, Kakuma refugee camp, food was cut to one meal a day. As sad as that is, at least the food they were cooking was more nutritious.

Given the food security crisis, as the former head of the World Food Programme has said, at times they are taking food from the starving to give to the hungry. This is why we are focused on this issue.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Minister. We will be most interested in any new developments on the issue.

I will now share one of my concerns that I spoke about with my colleagues when we met with representatives of other western countries, especially in the context of the war in Ukraine.

One of the things that we see internationally is that a good chunk of international assistance budgets from western countries has been repurposed to provide assistance to Ukraine, which is absolutely vital, of course, but which deprives the countries of the global south of part of the funding that they would normally have received. The countries of the global south have the impression that the war in Ukraine is a spat amongst rich countries. This is obvious in the voting results at the United Nations. Countries such as Canada have over the years withdrawn from continents like Africa, which left a vacuum for countries like Russia or China to fill. We all know what has happened there and it is obvious in the voting results at the United Nations on the war in Ukraine.

Shouldn't we be increasing our development assistance budget again, rather than redirecting towards Ukraine part of the funding that would normally be given to countries from the southern hemisphere? We would avoid reducing aid for those countries and boost our support for Ukraine with new funding.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Bergeron, I'm afraid we're out of time.

I would ask the minister to provide a very brief response to Mr. Bergeron's question.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes, it is very important. I think we can all agree that we should support Ukraine at this time. However, sadly, while other countries have...Canada has not reduced its support to the global south. In fact, that $250 million I talked about was more support. We actually increased our food security support.

I'm happy to talk to you about it offline, if you'd like.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We will next go to MP McPherson.

You have six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to the witnesses.

Thank you, Minister, for being here with us today.

As you know, I spent my career prior to politics in the international development sector. I have many questions for you, so forgive me if I interrupt you.

I have to start by saying that some of your words don't match the actions of this government.

You talked about the need for peace and security. The government promised 600 peacekeepers. I believe we have 60 in the field right now. You went to Qatar. You've not spoken out about Saudi Arabia taking weapons and using them against innocent civilians. I worry about that.

You talk about the need for increased international development, but we saw in the budget a 15% cut to ODA. At a time when we have a climate crisis and people around the world are suffering disproportionally, when we have a hunger crisis, when conflict is causing massive challenges and we have a feminist international assistance policy, this country— even though we are already 16 out of 30 of donor countries and so far below where Pearson wanted us to be and below the ambitions that Canadians have for this country—has cut international development assistance by 15%.

Your job as the international development minister is to advocate for international development, to make sure that the caucus understands why international development is so important.

What have you been doing to do that? How have you been advocating for the sector when what we see right now is a 15% cut to ODA?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair and the member of the committee, I would like to explain.

The actual baseline of our budget has been systematically increasing, and when crises come up, Canada does need to step up as well. When it came to the COVID crisis, just like we had to increase funding inside Canada, we've also increased our COVID support internationally as well, plus with the Ukraine crisis....

If you were to take those two funding streams out, our baseline funding for international development has steadily increased. We will continue to—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but you can't take those out. That's like saying if you take out the hunger crisis, that doesn't count. You can't take that out. That's the reality of the world we're living in.

We are not done with COVID in many parts of the world, as I'm sure you know. The hunger crisis is escalating, not reducing. The conflict in Ukraine may not be over for a decade. Goodness knows, I certainly hope it is over very quickly for the people, and I hope we do everything we can for Ukraine.

But realistically, to say don't worry, it would have been the same if these things hadn't happened, doesn't matter. They did happen. This is the reality of the world. We have a 15% cut from last year, and this is at a time when we have increasing needs. Canada is not there.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, will you give me the opportunity to explain?

The numbers that are being evaluated are from the end of the year. The budget we're asking for now is for the beginning of the year. Just as in previous years, especially last year, additional funding was provided based on the crisis that required it. As you stated, yes, we do need to support Ukraine. The need, during COVID, to enhance health systems around the world does continue. We do need also to look at the food security crisis. Throughout the year, as in previous years, we will look at where we need to step up. What I would encourage members is that we have a conversation at the end of the year in terms of where our actual funding will be.

Currently our baseline budget year after year has increased.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

No, your baseline budget has to incorporate all of the things that happen in the world. That's what international development is. This is an example of how you're not meeting the needs of the sector. You're not meeting the needs of people around the world.

Bill C-41 is another perfect example, Minister. You were responsible for making sure that Public Safety and Justice understood how humanitarian action actually occurs. In fact, what happened with Bill C-41 is that we weaponized, we criminalized, international development and humanitarian aid.

Everyone in the sector asked for a humanitarian carve-out. They didn't get that. When I listened to the experts from Public Safety and from Finance, it was almost as though they had never even heard about what humanitarian aid was. This was deeply flawed legislation.

What are you going to do to fix that?