Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2023

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

As I've indicated, we are getting consistent numbers from the State of Israel. We trust those numbers. We've seen, through the media and through other sources in Israel as well, all of the backup that shows this.

On the Palestinian side, we are getting these figures from the Ministry of Health. Our experience has been that the Ministry of Health's numbers are usually quite a bit higher than the numbers we see from other sources on the Palestinian side.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

I'd like to switch topics a bit and talk about evacuations.

We all remember how hundreds of thousands of Canadians were trapped in an emergency situation abroad during the pandemic. The policy of the Government of Canada at the time, if I recall correctly, was that Canadians had to pay their own way back to Canada. The government would offer emergency loans, but it was expected that those loans would be repaid in full.

Recently the government evacuated a number of Canadians from Tel Aviv to Athens. Who was responsible for the payment of that transit?

[Julie Sunday]

In terms of our policy on evacuations, when we're dealing with a crisis situation, our objective is to get people to a safe country—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Understood.

[Julie Sunday]

—so, with regard to that first piece, the Government of Canada has taken responsibility for that.

In this case, that was done through the Canadian Armed Forces. Individuals were evacuated to Athens. They are required to pay their onward travel to Canada and also to coordinate their lodging. Of course, our mission helps support them in getting access to hotels, etc.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Then why is there this seeming inconsistency?

In the early days of a declared global pandemic, many Canadians were trapped abroad, and they were told, in no uncertain terms, that they had to pay for their own flights. In many cases, the flights were very expensive because they were at the last minute. Borders were closing; it was an emergency situation to get back in the weeks following the declaration of a global pandemic on March 11, 2020. However, in other cases, Canadians are not expected to reimburse the Government of Canada. There seems to be a bit of inconsistency in the government's policy here.

[Julie Sunday]

What I would say to that, Mr. Chair, is that our policy, as applied to conflict crisis scenarios, has been very consistent. In the case of Sudan, we took people to Nairobi, at which point, for onward travel, they were required to support that travel. Of course, we have funding that's available should anyone require a loan to be able to do that. We have something called the distressed Canadian fund.

Also, in Afghanistan—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

That answers my question. Thank you. That's a good clarification.

I have just a quick question. Do you believe that the government should allow—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You are out of time, Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We will go to our last question.

Dr. Fry, you have five minutes for the last remaining question.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses who are here today from foreign affairs, etc. I want to thank you for your ability to rapidly respond to the problem and to be on the ground, as always, making sure that you lever the right questions and help Canadians.

However, I know a lot of Canadians who felt that during the early days of this conflict, they couldn't get any answers from the link and from the phone number that was there to get to people on the ground from Canada. I think you've said that this has been fixed and very few people are trying to call out.

I wanted to ask you about this. We've heard from everyone that the only way to get humanitarian aid through would be from Rafah. How is the Israeli-Egyptian relationship getting along? I know Cairo had a meeting on the weekend. Is there tension in the relationship between Israel and Egypt? I know that Egypt was afraid that there would be bombing along Rafah and they didn't want to sent any aid across that corridor.

What is happening? Is that a stable relationship now? Does everyone feel that Rafah will be open for movement of humanitarian aid?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

I wouldn't want to speak for the government of Egypt or the government of Israel, but I can share some observations of what we're seeing on the ground in Cairo and Tel Aviv.

There is evidently a peace between Egypt and Israel. It's one of the Arab neighbours that Israel has had peace with. This one is a long-standing peace. There is co-operation. Co-operation networks have built up over the years between those two governments.

We welcome this, obviously—

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you. That's a good answer.

I want to find out a little bit about the role that Qatar is playing right now.

Obviously, Qatar is talking about one of its priorities being the release of hostages. How is that moving along? Has there been a release of hostages? Is that moving forward? Is that expansion opening?

Qatar also said that it wanted to see a decrease in the violence and a decrease in the expansion of the conflict. How is that particular movement going?

Those are the questions. It's about hostages and the role of Qatar in moving forward to decrease violence and to decrease escalation of conflict. How is Qatar playing that role in the region? Is Qatar becoming an effective regional diplomat?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

Why don't I start with Qatar? Then I'll turn to my colleague on the hostages question.

We are quite appreciative, as the Government of Canada, for Qatar's vital support on a series of different crises, including COVID-19 repatriation and the evacuation of Afghanistan refugees.

The Prime Minister, as well as Minister Joly as Minister of Foreign Affairs, along with the Minister of International Development, have spoken to their Qatari counterparts in the last couple of weeks to exchange views on the conflict and to discuss Qatar's mediation efforts.

We have publicly congratulated Qatar on its successful efforts to secure the release of two American hostages on the weekend. That was very welcome. We also welcome Qatar's ongoing efforts in the region to secure the release of hostages who are being held.

It is fair to say that we share concerns about the humanitarian situation. We want to keep up that dialogue. We agree on the need to protect civilians in Israel and in Gaza.

[Julie Sunday]

I would quickly add that we are working with all our regional partners on both of those fronts, whether it's helping Canadians to exit Gaza or addressing the cases of our two missing Canadians.

We are intensively engaging, both in capitals and on the ground, with all countries that are playing an important role in this, such as Israel, obviously, and the U.S., and we are also discussing this with regional partners such as Qatar.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you. I have one last question, please.

Is there any substantive difference you see, from your perspective as the foreign affairs department, between the political, social, and military wings of Hamas?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

Hamas is a listed terrorist organization in Canada. We don't draw a distinction between wings. They reinforce one another and, as I say, Hamas is a listed organization in Canada.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Dr. Fry.

Having had the opportunity to have three full rounds of questions, and it now being five minutes to one o'clock, I want to thank all the officials for kindly appearing before our committee and taking the time to provide us with your answers and expertise.

In addition to that, on behalf of every member of this committee, I want to thank you for all the incredible work you have been doing for the past two weeks under extremely difficult circumstances. Thank you kindly.

Before we adjourn the meeting, I want to remind everyone that we have to approve a budget that was sent to everyone.

Go ahead, Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I move that we adopt the budget.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Is that unanimous?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

(Motion agreed to)

Great.

Go ahead, Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Chair, could you tell us what will be on the notice of meeting for Wednesday?