Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 5th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We now go to MP Chong.

You have four minutes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll just build on the questions I was asking earlier.

The High Commissioner of India to Canada has said that “some Canadian citizens are using Canadian soil to launch attacks on [Indian] sovereignty and territorial integrity”, which is against any international law. What does the Government of Canada say to that?

[Weldon Epp]

We take note of those comments, and we've heard those views expressed in diplomatic meetings repeatedly.

For example, in the interview in The Globe and Mail today with the high commissioner, he also points out that there is a difference between Canada's and India's definitions of, for example, “terrorism”. Therefore, it's important for governments—India's or otherwise—to bring forward concrete, substantiated cases and not just allegations.

Canada has an elaborate and well-staffed set of teams—be it at Justice Canada or with the RCMP, including our liaison officers abroad and so on and so forth—to work with foreign countries to address issues of transnational crime, including terrorism, when there is evidence.

In the case of our relationship with India, it has sometimes been a sticking point. We're aware that they have concerns. We're ready to deal with them. I know that there's currently a very active caseload, as I said, for Justice Canada. Part of that gets to saying what our threshold is and asking whether they can provide evidence that meets that. For example, Justice Canada and the RCMP in the past have done, effectively, workshops with the Indian government to explain what our standards legally would be.

I understand that the high commissioner has a job to do and has his instructions. We speak about these issues regularly. We're diplomats. At the end of the day, what's really important is for his government's justice and policing agencies and institutions to work closely with ours. I know—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Some people would argue that GAC is a central agency and, as such, should be within the machinery of government, providing advice and directing other departments in terms of the threats we're facing. If it is the case that Canada is being used as a staging ground to fundraise for terrorism, to fundraise for extremist activities taking place in other countries, surely GAC has a role to play in working within the machinery of government to convey that problem to the other parts of the government that are responsible for dealing with it on Canadian soil.

[Weldon Epp]

That's a fair point. There's an ongoing discussion between departments. GAC is part of that conversation. We don't lead on determining whether there are grounds for those accusations and how to deal with them within Canadian borders, but we certainly support, through a number of mechanisms, ongoing dialogue about how to address international crime.

We have, as members may be aware, mechanisms for funding international capacity building on international crime—cross-border crime—as well as terrorism, so there's a role for GAC.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I raise this because it seems to me that we're increasingly becoming a haven for transnational repression, in part funded by financing activities that are illicit. I look at TD Bank's cancellation of a proposed takeover of a U.S. regional bank, a $13-billion U.S. takeover. It was kiboshed by U.S. regulators because of money-laundering concerns.

I see FINTRAC's recent finds levelled against big Canadian banks. The Royal Bank, I think, got a $7-million fine. TD got fined over $10 million. Other banks got fined. This is all in the last month or so, and then just this past week there was a $65-million U.S. fine against a Royal Bank subsidiary for money laundering. It seems like we are a nexus—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We are out of time. You're well over your four minutes for questions.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Yes. Quite simply, former national security and intelligence adviser Jody Thomas recently visited India to talk about the Nijjar assassination.

Can you tell us about that trip?

[Weldon Epp]

Quickly, Mr. Chair, I won't get into the details of this trip or that, but the bottom line is that Canadian senior officials, including the national security and intelligence adviser, Deputy Minister Morrison and others, have intensively used our existing channels of diplomacy to make sure the Indian government understands the nature of our concerns, to describe the allegations that we're concerned with and to look at ways to move forward together to get to the bottom of the matter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

For the last four minutes, we go to MP Khalid.

You have four minutes, please.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. I'll get right into it.

How has India's extreme reaction to Canada's credible allegations impacted its relationships with its allies and with its regional neighbours as well? Has it impacted them?

[Weldon Epp]

I'm not aware of any direct impact of the current challenges between Canada and India on India's relations with its neighbours.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

You mentioned that we are stalling now on trade agreements. Has that benefited any other country in that region?

[Weldon Epp]

No, I'm not aware of any benefits to any other countries in this regard. It should be noted that trade negotiations can move quickly, but they can move slowly. They can be quite long processes, both for Canada and, I would add, for other countries pursuing trade agreements, with India in this case.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you.

Over the past number of years, from the Prime Minister's trip to India to this issue, have you in Global Affairs been monitoring social media campaigns spreading misinformation and disinformation on this issue, specifically as it has arisen now?

[Weldon Epp]

Yes, we monitor all forms of media quite closely. I think it has been very interesting to see the amount of chatter or discussion of these matters, both on social media in Canada and also within India.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Are you able to describe that for us?

[Weldon Epp]

I guess what I would say is that some of the more sensational elements of what's happened—for example, allegations of potential links between India and the death of a Canadian—obviously generate a lot of commentary. However, the expulsion of Canadian diplomats also generated a lot of coverage.

Suffice it to say that India is a democracy. It's very diverse. There are many voices. It has an active media, and it's close to a formal election campaign, so in terms of Indian social media, quite reasonably—although one could argue this is not the main event—it comes up frequently in domestic discussions about India's foreign policy.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you.

You had mentioned that obviously India is a very diverse country, very much like Canada, dealing with a lot of different cultures, a lot of different religions, etc. How have different diaspora communities reflected on or reacted to this turbulence within the relationship?

[Weldon Epp]

I have not spent time—and I'm not aware that my colleagues have—in parsing the responses or reactions of different communities within Canada. I think it's important to emphasize that, for Global Affairs Canada, we look at the impact of foreign policy on Canadian citizens, irrespective of their religious or community interests.

It is the case that the community of Canadians of Indian heritage is quite significant, quite large, historically long-standing and quite diverse. Naturally, as for all Canadians, there will be very different and distinct views about what's happening between Canada and India. I think that's entirely normal, and we're not guided by that sort of analysis. Our interest is in making sure that the services that Global Affairs Canada is responsible for and the diplomacy that is our mandate to manage is managed with the interests of all Canadians at heart.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

It seems a bit strange to me, because when we talk about—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

MP Khalid, you're out of time.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

May I have one last comment, Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

No. You're considerably out of time, I'm afraid.

At this juncture, I want to take the opportunity on behalf of the entire committee to thank you, Mr. Epp.

Thank you, Ms. Hannan.

We're very grateful for the time, the perspective and the expertise you have brought to our committee.

We will suspend for four minutes, and we will come back for committee business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]