Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 18th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Your Excellency, how would you describe the impact of foreign soldiers fighting for Russia in this war?

[Andrii Plakhotniuk]

We're talking about a number of things in this regard. First is that the Russian side is negotiating with foreign countries, and they're using different methods to bring in as many people as possible, sometimes selling lies and also conducting this disinformation campaign.

When we're talking about foreign nationals fighting on the side of the Russian Federation, certainly we are referring to several African countries. We have cases with participants from Cuba, but the most important one is the DPRK. When we are talking about DPRK soldiers who are participating officially and within their military alliance with Russia, we're talking about a very dangerous situation. We're talking about people who get new knowledge and new understanding of modern warfare and how drones operate. This means only one thing—that they will bring back this knowledge to their area, to the Korean peninsula. It certainly creates new risks and very, very big challenges. People are trained, and they return trained, like mercenaries, or whatever we call them.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Talking about North Korea is like talking about China, right?

[Andrii Plakhotniuk]

When we're talking about China, there are a couple of things I would like to mention. First and foremost, we need literally each and every country on board when it comes to making Russia stop the war. If we could have the Chinese government working with the Russians to deoccupy our nuclear power plant in Zaporizhzhia, it would be a good sign of such an approach. When we're talking about other things, certainly they are co-operating very actively, because they are strategic partners, co-operating on technologies, in economic regional co-operation, on buying natural resources, and so on and so forth.

Many countries continue to support Russia with foreign currency revenues through trade, investment and participation, but we are trying to work with each and every country in order to decrease such co-operation and to show that it's our joint mission to stop the war.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much.

Next, we have MP Kronis for five minutes.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you so much, Your Excellency. Thank you for being here and for your candour.

Like my colleagues, I am grateful for the deep and excellent friendship between our countries, and I am also grateful to the Ukrainians who have chosen to call Canada, particularly my part of Canada, on Vancouver Island and in Nanaimo and surrounding areas, their home.

I know there will be people in my community who are going to be watching things like this because they're so eager for news from home, to get updates and to hear how things are. I want to thank you for alluding to the human side of this conflict in your remarks. I know people here will be reassured that work is being done by Canada and other partners to help bring the Ukrainian children home and to help make things as comfortable as possible for people at home.

Could I ask you to put on your most optimistic hat for a moment? It's natural that everyone also wants to know when and how this might end and when the just, comprehensive and lasting peace you spoke about in your opening remarks might come about. Could you share what the progress is on the peace talks and where you see the best opportunities to move those forward?

[Andrii Plakhotniuk]

Thank you very much for this question.

If I may respond to this, I will refer to the message my president communicated recently. There were a number of opportunities during this year to start genuine negotiations. We remember different initiatives, including American initiatives that started long ago, but there is only one thing missing: There is no desire on the Russian side to get engaged and to start genuine negotiations. We don't see it from any perspective. From what we see on the ground, he tried to make advancements on the battlefield, and he continues to target critical infrastructure and residential areas. It means we support different international initiatives, and we are ready to talk. We are talking about the leaders' summit, because we understand that there is only one person in Russia who makes decisions, and it's Putin.

We are ready for any kind of negotiation, with the participation, certainly, of our most reliable and true friends. We are strongly coordinating with the United States, with Canada and with European partners in order to find opportunities with these negotiations, but, frankly speaking, I don't see any immediate desire from the Russian side to start these negotiations. They still think they have time and that they can use this time to get a better and stronger position when the real negotiations start. For that not to happen, we need a strong Ukraine: strong institutionally, militarily, financially, and so on and so forth.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Where that leads me, then, is to the coping while you wait for negotiations that will bear fruit. I'm wondering if you could share with us what the state of the Ukrainian economy is: how people are coping and how they're managing to try and build that imperfect life that people unfortunately have to try and find in wartime. If you could share a little about how that is going, I'd be grateful.

[Andrii Plakhotniuk]

When it comes to the economic situation in Ukraine, certainly we are grateful for all the microfinancial support we get. It's vital for the Ukrainian economy to continue to function properly, but when it comes to people's experience, when this full-scale invasion started, our banks continued to work and to provide services, and our people continued to get salaries. The state and the people have shown tremendous resilience. The system responded properly, but we're talking about the necessity and urgent need for us to receive more microfinancial support in order to keep the economy moving. The expenditures on defence are really huge, and everything is about that now.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I have one last question in the time that I have. The plight of Ukrainian children is very much on the minds of both the Ukrainian diaspora community and Canadians. This is one of the things I know I would be wondering if I were connected to this: Are there ways for people to report someone missing? Are there ways for people here, who might be getting some information, to report that? Is there a registry of some kind that people can contribute to?

[Andrii Plakhotniuk]

We are conducting our national investigation. We have international partners and national governments that are also conducting national investigations, thus supporting our investigation teams in Ukraine by collecting evidence. They are talking to people who are temporarily staying in Canada and other countries, thus contributing to the evidence collection and then to the processing.

We have this twin partnership, and all of our relevant agencies are working with law enforcement agencies. As always, we are grateful for everything that is being done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much.

Next we have MP Bill Blair.

You have five minutes.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much.

Your Excellency, welcome. We very much appreciate your attendance here, and congratulations on your appointment. You're most welcome here, of course.

Throughout this discussion, I think there's been, quite appropriately, a lot of focus on the military situation in Ukraine. We're watching, with some concern, Russia's activity in the Pokrovsk region right now. As well, there's a focus on the missing children, which is an important and necessary focus.

If I may, I'd like to build on Ms. Kronis's comments about what's next for Ukraine. We are watching the American efforts at some diplomatic intervention. Occasionally, we are optimistic, and then I think we all suffer a bit of frustration with the pace and with Mr. Putin's inability or unwillingness to participate.

However, I'm thinking about other ways that I believe Canada could contribute to the support of Ukraine. We talk about military support, and I agree. We talk about some of the liquidity supports and the economic supports that Canada has provided. We think they're important.

By the way, let me take the opportunity to assure you that support for Ukraine is not a partisan issue in this country. It is my very strong belief that all parties support Ukraine's valiant struggle against Russian aggression, and we want the best for the Ukrainian people.

That's where my question goes. How do we continue to support Ukraine? I know there's been an application to join the European Union since 2022. There's a lot of work that needs to be done there, including a number of economic and civil reforms in Ukraine.

There has also been some discussion—a little on the back burner right now—about Ukraine joining NATO, but historically, I think Canada has a role and could be of some help to Ukraine. What more can we do to support Ukraine?

Then, I want to follow up on that question. I believe there are some economic opportunities for greater collaboration in trade, and in our work among our military industries in particular, because there's a great deal of money about to be invested there. Ukraine's excellence and expertise in that area also provide great opportunities for us to build on in our relationship together.

I'm going back to a “what's next” story. That's where I'd like to pursue your perspective on things that Canada can do to help Ukraine.

[Andrii Plakhotniuk]

Thank you so much for your kind words.

I would like to mention one specific area: reforms. That's the area where we desperately need international support when it comes to capacity building, when it comes to your expertise and your knowledge in different spheres. We really need it because, when we're talking about membership in the European Union and membership in NATO, it's the strategic course that was determined not only by the leadership of the country but also by the genuine will of the people. It's about the values that we share with our European and international partners.

When it comes to our reforms, we will need further support, and we will need a further strategic view and strategic vision on how to proceed with them.

When we're talking about what Canada can do to support Ukraine, I mentioned in my remarks that Canada has traditionally played a leading role in many issues when it comes to Ukraine. Certainly, being the first country to recognize independence and to provide assistance after the full-scale invasion started, with so many issues, you were, and still are, the leader. We really count on that strong leadership and that strategic vision continuing, and we count on you initiating different formats when it comes to specific areas.

You are so active when it comes to Russian foreign assets, like the well-known fact with the Russian airplane. In many cases, you have shown strong leadership, so please continue to do that. Please continue to support Ukraine.

We are talking about, for example, the coalition of the willing. You are actively participating in the coalition of the willing and supporting it in different formats. The PURL initiative is another one. There are a number of things. There is the sanctions policy. There are many other things we can discuss, and they can appear in the future, when we see how the situation develops, for example, in a month or two.

However, we are talking about the leadership, about these strong bonds of friendship and co-operation that are so deeply rooted between Canada and Ukraine.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you, Ambassador.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much, Ambassador, for your remarks and your appearance today in front of this committee.

We now briefly suspend the meeting to welcome our next set of witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

I call this meeting to order.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses for the second hour of this meeting. From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have Jocelyn Kinnear, director general, Ukraine task force; and Eric Laporte, acting director general, international security policy and strategic affairs bureau. Up to five minutes will be given for opening remarks, after which we will proceed to rounds of questions.

I now invite Ms. Kinnear to make an opening statement of up to five minutes.

[H.E. Jocelyn Kinnear, Director General, Ukraine Task Force, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the committee for inviting me to appear today. This meeting comes at the right time. At one o'clock today, parliamentarians will commemorate the Holodomor, the Ukrainian genocide in the USSR.

More than 90 years later, Ukrainians are threatened once again. Air strikes against civilian targets have intensified. Millions of Ukrainians are without power with winter on their doorstep. Slowly but surely, Russian forces are gaining ground. Despite the fact that Ukraine has agreed to an unconditional ceasefire, Russia continues to make maximalist demands. Meanwhile, Ukrainians continue to push back Russian forces, and to take care of their communities.

Canada has been supporting Ukraine since the start of this brutal war, as Ukraine defends its territorial integrity, its sovereignty and its security. This support is essential to maintain a rules-based international order, and to stop the use of force to define borders. That's why, since 2022, Canada has committed nearly $22 billion in various types of aid to Ukraine, helping the country meet its immediate needs and long-term priorities. We are working with the Canadian government as a whole to send our best tools where they are most needed.

What does this look like in practice?

To address the urgent humanitarian needs, Canada has committed over $396 million for emergency and life-saving services and protection and support for displaced populations.

To support Ukraine's priorities in recovery and reconstruction, Canada has committed over $700 million, including in development assistance.

Canadian funds are supporting Ukraine's energy supply, governance reforms in line with EU accession, and essential services for civilians, including responding to conflict-related sexual violence.

To help meet Ukraine's urgent balance-of-payment needs and support its macroeconomic stability, Canada has committed $12.3 billion in financial assistance, comprised primarily of loans.

To respond to Ukraine's immediate military needs and support long-term security, Canada has committed $6.5 billion in military assistance and nearly $230 million in peace and security programming. Funding from this type of programming strengthens the resilience and capacity of Ukraine's security sector in areas like protection of civilians, humanitarian demining, and cybersecurity.

Beyond funding, Canada facilitates trade and technical co-operation with Ukraine, enacts sanctions to hold Russia and its enablers accountable and increase economic pressure on Russia, and uses bilateral and multilateral diplomacy to coordinate support for Ukraine and increase pressure on Russia. Notably, Canada is leveraging our G7 presidency this year to all of these ends, as well as participating actively, as discussed in the previous session, in the coalition of the willing and the NATO-Ukraine Council.

I would like to share one example of how Canada and Ukraine are working hand in hand—it was raised in a number of interventions in the previous session—as it relates to Ukrainian children and how we're identifying the urgent needs and mobilizing the tools we have at our disposal.

Since 2014, Russia has removed thousands of Ukrainian children from their homes, unlawfully transferring or deporting them, often to Russian families or facilities, where they undergo re-education. Returns of these children remain complex, with legal, political and logistical barriers.

Recognizing the need for international support and coordination, Canada and Ukraine launched in February 2024 the international coalition for the return of Ukrainian children. This coalition has now grown to 44 members. In September, Prime Minister Carney and President Zelenskyy co-hosted a meeting of the coalition on the margins of the UN General Assembly.

On the ground in Ukraine, Canada's international assistance is also going to work to support these ends. We are funding AI-driven open-source intelligence to locate and identify victims, and supporting the reintegration and rehabilitation of returned children.

Like our full support to Ukraine, this work is a moral imperative for Canada, in order to support a partner in crisis. However, it's important to stress that in supporting Ukraine, Canada also seeks to defend a world order based on peace, prosperity and international co-operation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much for those remarks.

We will go to questions from members, beginning with MP Aboultaif.

You have six minutes.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Your Excellency and Mr. Laporte, welcome to the committee.

You've been talking to our partners, our allies, about what we can do better to make sure we put some pressure on Russia and increase that pressure. The sanctions against the Russian regime are one of the measures we have been taking in Canada.

In your own assessment, how effective were those measures, those sanctions? Is there anything you've learned from our partners in the world that we can use in Canada to make sure that we will be more effective against Russia's aggression against Ukraine?

[Jocelyn Kinnear]

As I think also came out in the previous sessions, this is one of the most important areas where we can try to exert the pressure needed to bring Russia to the negotiating table.

As you heard from Ambassador Plakhotniuk and from me, Ukraine has accepted an unconditional ceasefire. Russia continues to press for its maximalist demands. Putting that pressure in place to bring Russia to the table is important. It is not an easy job, and it is not a wave of the magic wand.

I would say that it remains a top priority for Canada. Certainly, within our G7 presidency this year, we've done a lot to increase coordination among the G7 partners on sanctions.

Sanctions are tricky. They have not caused the Russian economy to completely collapse—let's be honest about that—but they have exerted pressure in important ways. You're seeing growing inflation in Russia—huge levels of inflation. You've seen them having to draw down quite significantly on their sovereign wealth fund, which was very sizable going into the war. They've been forced to decouple from western economies. They're now much more limited in where they can get both revenues and parts, etc., to fund and to continue their war against Ukraine. We need to keep turning the cranks on this.

Of course, you put sanctions in place and the first thing that happens is Russia tries to find ways to work around them and evade them, so it's also a process of constantly refining and strengthening the sanctions, together with our partners, to be able to do that.

I would say that one of the key pieces in there relates to the oil price cap that has been put in place and that we recently lowered together as the G7 this summer. Of course, Russia is working very hard to try to find other ways to sell its oil and gas, which are a huge revenue generator for it, around those sanctions.

Again, Canada has created, through the G7 this year, a shadow fleet task force to find ways of working together with partners to list specific vessels. Canada has listed over 400 now, to ensure that those vessels face ever-larger challenges in trying to—

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Ukraine agreed to an unconditional ceasefire with Russia in order to stop the war and maybe start some kind of negotiation toward the rest of the many details that need to be solved around this whole conflict.

I'm not asking you to read a crystal ball, but if you can help us, it would be good for the study. I want to know what makes Russia, besides the personality of Putin and his way of doing things.... What makes Putin change his mind, basically at the last minute? There has to be some agreement. When Ukraine agreed to the ceasefire unconditionally.... I mean, what else can you do in order to show the goodwill that you want to go for that ceasefire?

What made Russia change its mind or not really listen to any of those efforts or respond to it?

[Jocelyn Kinnear]

I certainly can't profess to be able to get into the mind of Vladimir Putin, nor would I want to, but I would say that the work that Canada and like-minded partners need to keep doing is to continue that economic pressure. They should continue also in terms of accountability measures, looking at different international measures that could be put in place to bring Putin to justice and also engaging diplomatically with partners on whom Russia has become increasingly dependent.

Have those conversations and continue to underscore to all partners and all other countries that this is an atrocious and egregious war, a violation of the UN charter and of international law, and that it can't be let to stand.

We need to have those conversations with our like-minded partners and then also with other countries—non-traditional partners—to make sure we're working toward that.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.