Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 25th, 2025

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thanks for referencing that.

As many Canadians know, Canada now has the largest Ukrainian diaspora outside Russia, and many families here have a connection to children who are missing or have been abducted. Canada co-chairs one of the international committees for the return of Ukrainian children. Here in Canada, we have a very deep connection to the conflict.

You spoke of funding reductions. We know that the Americans have cut USAID and other funding, but we've also had announcements in the last few weeks from the Liberal government. Prime Minister Carney is indicating a plan to cut $2.7 billion of funding from foreign aid.

Is that going to affect your work and the work of your peer organizations? Is it going to hurt the effort to bring kids back?

[Caitlin Howarth]

It's hard for me to speak to the specific impact those cuts will have.

That said, right now we're at a really challenging point across the entire aid sector. We're seeing contractions across the board as the world prepares more broadly for conflict than it does for peace and sustainability. It is crucial to keep in mind that efforts like ours and efforts like those at Save Ukraine are fundamentally stabilization efforts.

If you work with a team like that at Yale humanitarian research lab, you're not just working on accountability for the sake of an eventual court case; you're working on, and investing in, a very real change in the tone and the tenor of the present. That can create a more stable future, as well as, frankly, a more stable next five minutes.

That's something that I think policy-makers would do well to keep in mind when they're looking to figure out not only how to avoid conflict but also how to potentially change the weather in the 10-day forecast.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

I think I'm out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Yes.

Next, we have Rob Oliphant to conclude this round.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I have a couple of minutes.

Thank you to both witnesses for coming.

To those Canadians of Ukrainian background who are watching at home, let me reassure them that Canada's commitment to Ukraine militarily, from a defence perspective and from a perspective of international law, as well as the accountability that must continue and the humanitarian assistance on the abduction of children, will be foremost in the Canadian government's mind. That is an ongoing commitment we will continue to make.

I have two questions.

Canada continues to co-chair, with Ukraine, the coalition on the return of abducted children. I believe that about 40 to 45 countries have now signed this.

What does signing mean, and what can we expect our partners to actually do? How can Canada call for more than a signature—for activity? Do you have suggestions, either of you, for that?

[Caitlin Howarth]

That's an excellent question.

I think there's much Canada is already doing in its leadership role, not only as a convenor but also in marking the critical nature of its governmental relationship with this massive Ukrainian Canadian diaspora.

In this manner, I think that Canada actually illustrates a couple of things that are really important. One thing that I'm very mindful of these days, as an American, is how we treat the stranger, how we welcome them into our community and the mark that it makes, the difference it makes, even for the accountability work that actors like ICRUC are trying to do. It's also for the broader stabilization impact that can happen around the world.

That is a leadership message that can be shared and exemplified across that broader coalition: It's to think about what can happen and how other signatories can do more. They could perhaps think more about the kind of environment they want to offer at home and how they can perhaps be a little more Canadian in their approach.

I hope that provides some guidance.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

You're always welcome as an American.

Mr. Kuleba, do you want to add anything to that?

[Mykola Kuleba]

Yes, thank you.

As I mentioned, the Canadian government provided support, and we were able to find kids, rescue 200 of them and provide a trauma-healing program. There's a great chance that, in the future, we will rescue more kids if the Canadian government provides more support for us.

We are so grateful to the Ukrainian diaspora in Canada and the Canada-Ukraine Foundation, the Ukrainian diaspora organization, the Ukrainian Canadian Congress and all of these organizations that are providing support and trying to find any possible way to inform us, to donate and to help with the trauma-healing programs. That's why Canada is leading. I'm asking you to stay in the same position and do more, because through this, we can rescue more Ukrainian children and bring them home.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you to both witnesses for your appearance before the committee.

We will briefly suspend the meeting to prepare for the next panel of witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Colleagues, I'd like to call the meeting to order.

I'd like to welcome the witnesses for the second hour. Representing the Ukrainian Canadian Congress are Ihor Michalchyshyn, chief executive officer and executive director, and Orest Zakydalsky, senior policy adviser. Welcome.

You have five minutes for an opening statement, Ihor.

[Ihor Michalchyshyn, Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director, Ukrainian Canadian Congress]

Thank you, Chair and distinguished members of this committee.

I'll be reading our statement, and Orest will help me with the questions and answers.

Almost 1,400 days ago, on February 24, 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. For more than three years, Russia has been committing genocide, attempting to annihilate the Ukrainian state and destroy its people. The Ukrainian people have, for three years, courageously defended their own freedom and the freedom and peace of Europe.

We believe, and we know that you do too, that it is in Canada's national interest to ensure a strong, free, democratic Ukraine. Ukraine's victory is in Canada's interest and in the interest of the free world.

We are grateful for the economic, humanitarian and military support that Canada and our allies have provided, but so far, Ukraine has received only enough to survive, not to win. This must change, as the only path towards peace in Europe is Russian defeat. Whether or not a peace plan is adopted this week or next year, Russia will not abide by its terms. Therefore, a military defeat of Russia is the only option.

Russia has violated every single agreement and treaty it has entered into. In 1994, when Ukraine was pressured to give up its nuclear arsenal, Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. pledged to protect Ukrainian sovereignty. None of the signatories to the Budapest memorandum have lived up to its terms, and there was a failure to respond to the Russian invasion of Crimea and the Donbass.

The full-scale invasion of 2022 shocked the world. Even when the three-day special operation failed abysmally, there was reluctance to let Ukraine finish the job. Ukrainians do not ask for our boots on the ground; they ask for weapons to do the job themselves.

Now, since January 2025, the calculus has changed dramatically. The entire world is recalibrating as a result of our capricious neighbour to the south. Canada has been forced to fortify its economy and its defence sector. The recently passed budget reflects increased spending on defence, in line with our NATO commitments, and Canada can now prioritize joint ventures with Ukraine's world-class defence sector.

We should invest in partnerships to provide a win-win. We should invest in things that are good for Canada that can also be good for Ukraine. For example, the proposed production of Gripen fighter aircraft in Canada would create thousands of jobs and help produce the aircraft destined for Ukraine.

We therefore encourage Canada to focus on three policy pillars.

First, strengthen defence ties to increase the delivery of military assistance to Ukraine and increase joint production.

Second, strengthen commercial ties to increase support for Canadian private sector investment in Ukraine, including a domestic energy production increase to replace Russian energy.

Third, defend shared values to make Russia pay for its aggression by working with allies to seize the $300 billion in frozen Russian assets and make them available to Ukraine.

We need to increase sanctions on Russia in the energy sector, which continues to fund their war machine; support the prosecution of war crimes and crimes against humanity; and endorse the Special Tribunal for the Crime of Aggression Against Ukraine established by the Council of Europe.

In taking these steps, the Canadian government will have the strong support of the public. Recent polling showed that 77% of Canadians support stronger sanctions on Russia, 70% support seizing Russian assets and 65% support increased military aid and training.

We stress the urgency in moving as quickly as possible to increase support to Ukraine and increase pressure on Russia. Just this week, people have been killed. There were 35 in Ternopil, and yesterday, there were four in Kharkiv and two in Dnipro. Overnight, seven were killed in Kyiv.

These Russian attacks on Ukrainian civilians occur every night. Unable to defeat Ukraine on the battlefield, Russia is terrorizing the Ukrainian civilian population to make towns and cities unlivable. Russia's depraved attacks include targeting innocent people, including children, in their homes. These are war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Finally, I'll say a short word about the so-called U.S. peace plan that was leaked, most likely by Russia, to the press last Thursday. Should the 28 points of this plan have been accepted, it would have amounted to a Ukrainian capitulation. The UCC agrees with the position of Canada and our allies, who united and underlined this point: “We are clear on the principle that borders must not be changed by force. We are also concerned by the proposed limitations on Ukraine's armed forces, which would leave Ukraine vulnerable to future attack.”

It's our position, as the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, that Canada and our allies must increase pressure on Russia to force it to stop its invasion of Ukraine. We believe that putting pressure on Ukraine, as the U.S. administration has been doing, only emboldens Russia and makes peace less likely.

Appeasement will not lead to peace. Occupation is not peace. It appears that in the days since this so-called plan was published, negotiations have begun between the U.S. and Ukraine. As many of the components of the peace plan are within the purview of the EU and NATO, it is critical that they are also at the table.

We welcome your questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much for your remarks.

We now open the floor to questions from colleagues, beginning with MP Ziad Aboultaif.

You have six minutes.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thanks for appearing before the committee, and welcome again.

The Ukrainian diaspora in Canada is very important and influential; it has been very active since the invasion, even since 2014 and the first invasion of Crimea.

What role is the community playing to help get those children released or at least to help address this issue properly for the Canadian public? It is very important to educate the Canadian public about what's going on. We're not talking about 5,000 or 10,000 children; we're probably talking about millions of children taken since 2014 in the occupation of Crimea and the new territories that have been taken by Russia.

The role of the community is important. I think it will be important in this study for the committee to be briefed on the role of the community. Thank you.

[Ihor Michalchyshyn]

Thank you, and we were pleased to see the witnesses you had preceding us.

I think the community has taken two important roles. The first is to publicize and promote and inform Canadians, all Canadians, of this issue, whether it's in the media or in our local communities, by working with other ethnocultural communities and Canadians at large to make sure that people understand. There are a number of films, and there are a number of public speakers.

The second thing is more direct support, as was mentioned by Mr. Kuleba. The Canada-Ukraine Foundation and other organizations are funded not only by our community members but also by Canadians at large, and they are supporting the direct efforts of these organizations and engaging in fundraising and efforts to make sure that they can increase their capacity.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

One of the biggest challenges related to the children is what Russia is doing to change the mindset, the belief, about parenthood. These kids will be told that this is their new mom, this is their dad, this is their new nationality, as we all know, and I'd like to re-emphasize the point that one of Russia's objectives in the war is the Ukrainian population.

We need to see how we're going to work around this. It's a big challenge. We know that Putin is a dictator, and that's what he's been doing. The biggest victims are Ukraine and the Ukrainian people, as we know and we speak about.

The role of the community is important in gathering information and knowing what we know and trying to report the names and numbers of these children. How do you describe the role of the community here?

I think one of the gaps that we see is in the numbers: Someone is talking about 1,800 and someone else is talking about 20,000, but we're talking about way more than that, and it takes lots of time and effort to be accurate on the data. Then at least we know what to fight for and what to negotiate for.

Again, how does the role of the community help to handle this whole challenge? I think that's something we'd like to know.

[Orest Zakydalsky, Senior Policy Adviser, Ukrainian Canadian Congress]

Well, as you say, it's an enormously difficult problem, partly because getting accurate data is difficult. I'm sure the representative of the Yale humanitarian lab spoke with you about that.

In terms of what we encourage here in our community, we encourage anyone who has any information that they can share to reach out to the RCMP, which has a program that collects evidence not only on Russian war crimes specifically against children, but also on Russian war crimes in general and crimes against humanity. People here who fled Ukraine certainly should be reaching out to the RCMP with any information they have.

Mr. Kuleba's organization, as Ihor mentioned, is supported by the Canada-Ukraine Foundation to do a lot of its work, but yes, this is an incredibly difficult issue to address, because these kids are abducted either into Russia or into the occupied territories, and it's very difficult to get accurate information and get these children out, as you heard earlier today.

We are thankful to Canada for leading this coalition, together with Ukraine. Certainly the resources of the government are greater than those of the community, and we're grateful to see the government take a lead on it.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

As Canada is the co-chair of the international coalition for the return of Ukrainian children, do you have any recommendation or advice for the Government of Canada on how to be more effective in this almost impossible mission?

[Ihor Michalchyshyn]

We were invited to the conference in Montreal last year. Certainly, it would be growing the international partnership to engage with more multinational partners who can engage with Russia and assist.

Of course, we would never be against devoting more resources, whether it's staff time, funding systems or funding NGOs, and ensuring that everything that Mr. Kuleba and his team are doing is fully funded. There should be no lack of resources in their work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to MP James Maloney next.

You have six minutes.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to thank both of you gentlemen, not only for being here today but for all the work you do, which I'm very familiar with. Without the two of you and your entire organization, the Canadian government would be much less capable of doing what it's able to do, so I just want to say thank you.

We're talking about children today, and I want to touch on that at the beginning.

We're talking about the removal of children from Ukraine. I had the chance to go to Kyiv last September, and while I was there, I was invited by some of my counterparts to visit the children's hospital in Okhmatdyt.

The removal of Ukrainian children is one thing, but the intentional attack on a children's hospital was not an act of war: It was an act of evil. I was aware of it, and I had read about and seen it on the news, but I wasn't fully prepared to see what I did that day.

This isn't a question; it's just a reminder to people who are watching today about the horrors and atrocities that are actually going on there. The only thing I can compare it to is walking up University Avenue, turning a corner and seeing the Hospital for Sick Children completely annihilated by bombs. It was a day I'll never forget.

I was going to talk to you about the peace plan, but given your opening remarks, I think I might stay away from that, because you don't have much faith in the outcome of that plan. I would suggest that your comments about Russia's intentions are accurate, given that one of the terms, I believe, was to reduce the size of Ukraine's military, so I will turn to the issue about seizing Russian assets.

This is an important issue. I've been involved in discussions with you in the past about this, and the Canadian government has taken steps so far. What specific step could Canada be taking now, in your opinion, to move this forward?

I'll use an example. I pass the Pearson airport at least twice a week, and I see that Russian aircraft on the tarmac. The Canadian government has started legal proceedings to move to the next stage of seizing that asset so that it can be converted to the benefit of Ukraine. I'd like your insight on that.

[Orest Zakydalsky]

From what we know, relatively small numbers of Russian assets are frozen in Canada, but what Canada can do is move to seize those, as both an example to the rest of the world and as legal test cases.

The effort to seize the assets held in Europe has never been attempted before—to my knowledge, anyway—on the scale that I think is coming. Over $300 billion in assets is held in Euroclear and other European institutions.

As for the assets Canada has, for example, the government announced that they were going to go after Roman Abramovich's assets that are frozen in Canada. That seems to me to be a good place to start as a test case, and then that can be used by other jurisdictions to seize the assets that are in their jurisdictions. The plane is another example.

This is, in some sense, uncharted territory for Canada and our partners. In our view, the quicker we start doing it, the quicker we can see where we perhaps need legislative or legal changes on how to approach the seizure of what is really....

The vast majority of those assets are held in Euroclear in Belgium. I think Canada, as an example and a kind of test case for it, is a good place to start, largely because we know the political will is here to do it, which is not necessarily true of all of our European partners.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

On the Euroclear piece, is there any time sensitivity to what needs to be done with respect to the assets involving Euroclear?

[Orest Zakydalsky]

The time sensitivity is that Ukraine needs support and needs it quickly.

The other issue is that a lot of these assets are frozen because of European sanctions that require unanimity to be rolled over and continued every six months. So far, the governments in Europe that are not friendly to Ukraine, such as Hungary and Slovakia, have gone along with continuing to seize those assets, but that's not a guarantee that they will do so in the future.

I think the urgency is related to both Ukraine's needs and any sort of political situation in Europe. Getting consensus among 27 countries is always going to be a problem.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Yes, there's obviously urgency on the part of Ukraine, but the other part was about the unanimous approach that's needed. Are you aware of any situation in which that unanimous approval might stop at any time in the near future?

[Orest Zakydalsky]

There's nothing specific, except the general political direction of a few of the European governments, and there's also the need to convince the Belgian government.

A lot of the resistance to the European Commission in doing this is coming from Belgium, where Euroclear is located, and as far as I can tell, they are worried about any liability that may come to the Belgian government itself.