Evidence of meeting #27 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was syrian.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Professor of Political Sciences and Scientific Director, The Montreal Center for International Studies, Université de Montréal, As an Individual
Are you talking about the list of women mediators with ties to Canada? Yes, I will gladly send that to you in writing.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
My apologies.
Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, the floor is yours for six minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
My thanks to the witnesses for joining us for this important study.
Ms. Deschamps-Laporte, you have just been talking about collective ambition and referring, among other things, to certain international assistance programs that normally come with a budget allocation.
In terms of collective ambition, what we are currently seeing around the world is that humanitarian assistance to the tune of billions of dollars is subject to budget cuts. We have seen it with USAID, the United States Agency for International Development. We have seen it all over Europe, and we saw it in Canada's most recent federal budget. I agree with you entirely that international assistance does indeed produce concrete changes when it is used appropriately.
Do you see any danger in further reductions in international assistance? Countries like Japan have reduced their international assistance considerably and are about to move to other things entirely in terms of international assistance.
Professor of Political Sciences and Scientific Director, The Montreal Center for International Studies, Université de Montréal, As an Individual
Thank you for the question.
Of course, the subject of international assistance is something that keeps the experts on the region awake at night. Although the vision is for a return to a secure world, international assistance was not wholly altruistic. Assistance in that form was intended to provide lasting security for the world. With no more international assistance, with no more programs to facilitate the transition, recruitment for violent groups becomes worse. In other words, violence feeds on vulnerable populations. It's not a direct link, but it's a link nonetheless, so I agree with you.
This is not just about international assistance. Canada has a very specific program using diplomatic channels, in a way. It would count as assistance financially but it's not strictly development aid. The program I am thinking of is the peace and stabilization operations program. The program funds microprograms and, sometimes, civil society initiatives. They are defined by conditions on the ground and make it possible to implement evidence-gathering and transition-to-justice programs.
For a long time, Canada was one of the six most innovative countries in the world. The budgets were quite limited, but the investments really did allow some countries to return to democracy and pluralism.
I agree with you that budget cuts are extremely troubling.
Thank you.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you so much, Ms. Deschamps-Laporte.
Professor Tepper, you mentioned the importance of measuring engagement, the assistance provided to the new Syrian government. You left the subject open.
In your view, should the priority not be on the criteria for measuring the engagement of democratic countries, of which Canada is one, vis‑à‑vis the Syrian government?
If we want responsibility and accountability, we have to base it on priorities.
Distinguished Senior Fellow, Norman Paterson School of International Affairs, Carleton University, As an Individual
That's a a complicated question, but Professor Diab also mentioned earlier that there are steps toward democracy. We can refer to that more technically, as we do in talking about aid and benchmarks.
The possibility exists that we, as part of our engagement, insist not only on accountability, which we must do, but also on benchmarks toward the goals. This is standard aid stuff, but in the case of Syria, our basic goal is to keep nudging them in the right direction and determining what would be the most effective way to get them to live up to the most aspirational goals and where they plan to go. We can help them. We have enormous expertise not only in the aid program, but again, as we talked about earlier, in terms of democracy and constitution building.
The goal in Syria can't be met by flooding it with a little money here and a little money there, although if we had it, that would be great, but the people of Syria need to have structure. The outside world can assist in that by providing targeted assistance with benchmarks, and then that leads to a positive cycle. You do this and then there's more, and you do this and there's more. A positive cycle is what we're looking for in Syria.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you so much for that very interesting answer, albeit to complex questions.
Mr. Abou Diab, you told us about the Druze and the Christians, particularly what is going on in the northwest with the Kurds. Human rights organizations are saying that things are not going at all well in that region.
How do you see the ability of the government to protect civilians and to abide by international law, when credible organizations are telling us that civilians are living through quite harsh difficulties.
Political Analyst and Director, Conseil Géopolitique Perspectives, As an Individual
Thank you for that very specific question. It raises an essential point.
It is true that international commitment to the transition in Syria must, as I have said, consider not only human rights and women's rights, but also freedom and plurality for Syria.
Even today, there is a kind of discrimination against the Alawites. Many women have been raped and many children have been abducted. With the Kurds, the whole issue of the Syrian flag and the Kurdish flag has really aggravated the situation.
Major conflicts are being fought between the Kurds and Daesh in and around Kobani. We must not forget that the Kurds have lost more than 20,000 people in that fight. They have sacrificed a lot.
It is true that, under American pressure, the new regime agreed to appoint one Kurd to work with the Ministry of Defence. In reality, though, the Druze, the Christians, the Alawites and the Kurds have no real presence in the new regime. That regime, therefore, is made up of one group only. That is serious.
The inclusive Syrian identity I talked about is neither enshrined in any rights nor evident in any security. As I said, in Suwayda, 33 towns and villages are still occupied. Almost 200,000 people have had to leave their homes. There's a partial blockade.
In the south of Syria and close to Damascus, ever since Iran's hold ended, there has been a new form of indirect confrontation between Israel and Turkey. The assistance of the international community is therefore required to prevent other massacres occurring in Syria. Nothing in Syria is guaranteed. The security situation remains fragile.
Liberal
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I'd like to direct my questions to Dr. Tepper.
The first question is regarding the agreement that was reached between the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces and the Syrian government just over a month ago to integrate civil and military institutions in northeastern Syria into the new Syrian state.
What do you know about the implementation of this agreement to date, and how likely is it to endure?
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I have a point of order.
Since the bells are ringing, could you confirm that we have unanimous consent to go until 5:30?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
The issue is that there's a 27-minute bell now, and then we'll go to the—
Liberal
Distinguished Senior Fellow, Norman Paterson School of International Affairs, Carleton University, As an Individual
Perhaps that's what we need for Syria—the bells are ringing.
The question of the role of the Kurds in the evolving situation in Syria is really the broader picture. What we know about this is that the people Canada has been closest to are the Kurds, who in the past had a semi-autonomous area that was secular and included women. That, totally unexpectedly, was defeated by force of arms in the recent past. The agreement was then reached that they will now integrate with the army of Syria.
What little I've been able to determine—since implementation was your question—is it's not going well and it's not going to be easy. There were four divisions that were going to be integrated.
The disagreement over secularism and the role of women is one of the stumbling blocks, because it's so central to the Kurdish approach and not so central to the current Syrian government. What to do with the Kurds and the future of the Kurds within Syria is a core issue for the evolving state.
There has been an agreement to have a unified army. There has been an agreement to have unified command and control. We'll have to see how that goes.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON
Thank you. I appreciate that answer.
I have a second question.
According to recent reports, Canada is among a group of western and Arab countries expected to participate in a multilateral effort to identify and eliminate the remaining chemical weapons stockpiles in Syria.
Can you tell us what you know about this initiative?
Distinguished Senior Fellow, Norman Paterson School of International Affairs, Carleton University, As an Individual
Unfortunately, I know very little about that particular aspect, except to emphasize once again that multilateralism is the way we leverage our impact, and we are doing so in regard to this very crucial area.
There are also all of the related matters of removing unexploded ordnances, demining, and we have a role to play in that.
Again, our leverage is amplified because of our long-standing capacity to work with others.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON
The third and last question I have concerns something I raised earlier, which is the Russian Federation.
The Russian Federation has military bases and assets in Syria. What is your assessment of the future of those military installations?
The department indicated to us that they viewed Turkey's installations as part of a co-operative bilateral relationship between Syria and Turkey, but they did not take the same view of the Russian installations.
What's your assessment of Russian assets in Syria? What is the status of them and where will they be in the future?
Distinguished Senior Fellow, Norman Paterson School of International Affairs, Carleton University, As an Individual
We have to remember that the Russian assets in Syria originated with the massive intervention by the Russian air force killing a lot of the people whose parties are currently related to the government. They used to be much more widespread across Syria. They are now clustered in two areas.
It's a genuine puzzlement to me, sir, that somehow this remnant of Russian influence has not been expunged, either by the government itself or by pressure from America. In this case, they could so easily say, “If you want our support, close out that influence.”
This is a gateway into Africa, by the way, by Russian influence.
The possibility exists that a deal or an agreement of sorts has been arranged by the government itself to maintain those bases, because the co-operation of Russia and other areas is so important.
Again, I'm baffled as to why that hasn't been cleaned out.
