Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 28th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Over the past two years, I've had the opportunity to join missions in Cameroon, Kenya and Rwanda. NGOs and a number of advocacy groups that are present in Africa say they sense a disengagement on Canada's part. These are the people on the ground talking.

Because nature abhors a vacuum, we see the increasing presence of China and Russia on the African continent. These countries are filling a void left by others.

The government's response was Canada's Africa Strategy, which was tabled a few days before the election. According to many, it is a bungled strategy that is barely 18 pages long and is not a serious approach, given the scope of the existing problem.

Do you have a more effective strategy in the works to get Canada back on the ground in Africa and help these organizations feel that Canada is no longer disengaging? This is a Quebec sovereignist speaking to you.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Look, when it comes to Africa, I think it's one of the largest, if not the largest recipient of our development aid. Over $3.2 billion, which is 44% of our ODA, goes to Africa, so it's a large recipient.

When you talk about a vacuum, I think, if there's a vacuum, it's probably USAID's. The fact that the U.S. is going out and leaving that development world, where countries like China and others are—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Secretary of State, but people have told me this. I'm not making it up. I'm not pulling it out of thin air. I met with several organizations on the ground who said that there used to be a greater Canadian presence in the countries I visited. When I speak to ambassadors on the continent, they tell me the same thing. So I'm not making this up.

To solve a problem, you first have to recognize that it exists. I want to work with the government if it truly intends to regain its place on the ground.

What I understand from your statement is that you don't think it's a problem. So you haven't planned anything to address this problem since you say there isn't one.

Did I understand correctly?

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Tackling the vacuum created by the U.S. or others that have exited is not something that Canada on its own can do. It's a massive pool. It's between $60 billion and $80 billion. It's 25-30% of the aid. It's not something that Canada on its own can do, but that's where private financing and blended financing come in. Others we will be able to do.

I met with the African Union commissioner at the African Union as well. They've now recognized that they have to build some of their structures themselves, especially when it comes to health, so they're not reliant on it. I was able, in my first and second trips, which were both to Africa—Ghana, Tanzania, Ethiopia and South Africa—to see our programs first-hand, and I think our programs are very strong.

Again, I think the proof is in the pudding in that 44% of our ODA, our official development assistance, is to Africa. Now, if anything, we're trying to do more to work with them, as they have 30% of the world's critical minerals, 60% of the solar energy and 25% of the biodiversity, so we will continue to engage with them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much for that.

We will next go to MP Rood.

You have five minutes.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, you say that no money goes to the Chinese state, but Global Affairs paid $1.1 million in educational grants to Chinese universities and colleges. Of course, colleges and universities are linked to the state, and I can't for the life of me think why we're giving them money when money is supposed to be for impoverished people, people living in poverty. The only people in China who can afford to go to school are those from the wealthier families.

Minister, I was wondering if you could table with the committee which institutions, what programs, receive the funds, what steps were taken to prevent the misuse of Canadian funding, and whether assurances were in place to ensure that this funding was not used for furthering educational oppression by the Chinese state.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

I can defer to my deputy. He can answer any particular questions in that regard.

[Christopher MacLennan, Deputy Minister of International Development, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

I don't have the exact details on that, but we can absolutely bring them forward to the committee. As I think was suggested, over the past 20 years, the support that has gone to.... My guess is probably educational exchanges, and it's potentially through IDRC as well, but we can bring that forward to the committee.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much. We'd appreciate it if you could bring that to the committee.

Minister, going forward, will you suspend new disbursements to Chinese recipients and other hostile state actors pending a full risk review and public audit? Will you be implementing additional partner vetting, transparency and disclosure of human rights, unconditionality and intellectual property safeguards as conditions on aid disbursements?

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Global Affairs Canada, when they fund and review any of these grants, have a very rigorous process in terms of vetting those programs. They have strict criteria to adhere to, so I'm pretty confident that those measures are already in place.

I'll continue to ensure that no funding is going to anyone who is suppressing anyone's rights, infringing on Canadian copyright laws or anything that's detrimental to Canada or its existence.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, the $645 million for Canada's international climate finance and biodiversity programs will end on March 31, 2026. Would you commit to asking your government for fiscal responsibility that prioritizes Canadians and not seek the continuation of this program?

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

We are going through a budget that's going to come out on November 4. There's a comprehensive expenditure review happening.

Canada has a very strong commitment to climate and biodiversity. I don't see our exiting that in any which way, but there will be always reviews and tweaks to programs as we see how efficient or effective they are, where they're needed, how they're needed and what the priorities are. We always consult Canadians to make sure that the voices of Canadians are heard, and we do a program that is appropriate for Canadian values and Canadian interests.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you.

The $15.5 million for climate change action for gender-sensitive resilience will end on November 30, 2025. Can you commit to asking your government for fiscal responsibility that prioritizes Canadians and not seek the continuation of this program?

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

As I said, I will review all programs as they come up for review. As other program funding requests come in, we always continue to look at their merits and success, as well as how well they've done in terms of results. Based on that, we'll make our decisions.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

On what criteria does the department deem a nation hostile or at high risk for Canadian aid? Beyond China, what other states fall into this category? How is due diligence applied in determining whether aid funding will be misappropriated or not?

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

The best example would probably be Afghanistan. I think that Canada does not share values with the government in Afghanistan, but remember that when we're doing aid in developing nations, we don't agree with all the values of many of those countries. Our goal is to help build some values, whether it's through democratic institutions, through gender rights and women's rights or through creating a better education system.

We help more than 100 million students around the world through many of our funding initiatives.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you, Minister. I have one final question.

If projects fail to meet governance transparency or human rights benchmarks, what clawback mechanisms exist? Has funding been recovered, suspended or reprogrammed since 2015, from which nations, and why?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Please give a very brief response.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

The process is very rigorous. I will let our department answer those questions, and maybe we can table those afterwards.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

I'd appreciate that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much.

Next, we'll go to MP Rob Oliphant. You have five minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Secretary, and thank you, officials, for being here and for the work you do on behalf of Canadians all the time.

I am tracking hurricane Melissa, which will land momentarily, probably as a level 5 hurricane that will affect Jamaica and probably Haiti and Cuba as well. This is something I'm glad you are tracking, and I hope the Canadian response is strong in the aftermath.

However, I want to focus less on a natural disaster and more on human-made disasters.

I had a meeting last week with the president of the International Committee of the Red Cross. We talked about the blatant disregard for the rules of war and international humanitarian law, the engagement of states in breaking those laws and then the aftermath.

Whether it's Russia in Ukraine or, allegedly, Israel in Palestine and Gaza, we have a disaster. The rules of law under the Geneva Conventions and other international humanitarian law are not being followed, and we will have to pay a bill.

How can you and the department work towards engagement on international law to ensure that Canadians won't be footing a bill later for human-made disasters because people have not followed international humanitarian law?

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

That's a very good question, Parliamentary Secretary.

We all know the effects of war and of the breaching of many international laws in Ukraine by Russia and in Gaza by Israel. Obviously, the enforcement of international law is the purview of Minister Anand in terms of or in addressing those matters that come to me in terms of international development and humanitarian assistance.

I can't agree with you more, particularly with regard to Gaza. The situation has been very dire. The way in which aid was given was horrific. Daily updates on the loss of lives, as you have probably seen, show almost 20 to 30 deaths every morning. It's numbing to see those deaths. People are dying. They're just seeking aid, and they're being shot at.

Accessibility was diminished significantly. There used to be 400 places where you could get aid; now it's down to four. You can imagine a population of more than two million people getting aid from only four distribution points. That's 500,000 for each one. It's not effective, not correct. In no way is it based on international standards.

We must do more to avoid this. That is a great example of a really preventable famine, a very preventable humanitarian crisis, and I think Minister Anand, along with her counterparts globally, has been working very hard and very strongly to prevent that, to sanction many individuals and create sanctions against those who are responsible, and to demand from them that they respect and adhere to international law.

The Prime Minister has also been very clear on the role of the ICJ and the international community.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'm trying to push us all upstream so that we don't have crises later, so I want us all to work together on that.

The second issue I'd like to raise is about pushing upstream. I want to talk about the International Development Research Centre, the IDRC, which I think is a pre-eminent, world-class institution that is providing research so that we put our aid in the best places possible. It is building research capacity around the world.

I want to be assured that the IDRC will be on your radar as we go through budget discussions, because I think it is providing the tools to go upstream to stop some of the issues later.

Do you have any comments on that?