Evidence of meeting #45 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
In a plan like the one that was presented by Mr. Lynch, if I'm not mistaken, I sensed—I am someone who senses many things—that the culture would have to change slightly.
Changes will undoubtedly be made, which will change the culture. I want to know what you think.
5:20 p.m.
President, Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada
Some things must change. Our objectives must be clearer. We want to achieve a level of excellence, and the clerk wants the entire public service to have that objective.
To achieve excellence in all areas, we will have to continue our process of renewal and continue to have the necessary tools to do the job. The renewal is not an end in itself. The end is achieving excellence and being able to serve ministers and Canadians. If we want to maintain that objective, we must renew ourselves.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
In that light, you would not be opposed to our committee asking you, for example, to come back and testify in a few months on this famous plan. You can use all kinds of expressions, like integrated planning, strategic planning, or implementation planning. Nevertheless, you know what I'm talking about.
Since we are striving for excellence, the committee could adopt a motion asking you to provide us with a plan that would clearly indicate the processes you will use and the staff and departments you will integrate in this fine report that, in passing, is excellent. It is excellent work. Moreover, how do you plan to get the departments to work along the same lines as the Clerk of the Privy Council?
So you wouldn't object to our asking you to do that?
5:20 p.m.
President, Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada
I don't object at all. You may ask me whatever you want and I will be more than pleased to respond.
I think you are referring to the integrated plan for the public service. The clerk has indeed stated that it was an absolutely essential aspect of our work. However, he planned to take steps for the longer term, and not within the next three months.
I can come back to you with a status report to keep you abreast of our activities. That would be very doable. As regards the plan the clerk referred to, he had more than three months in mind.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Ms. Jauvin, don't get us wrong. I have been in charge of all kinds of files where we use strategic planning. So I am fully aware that you cannot manage people in the public service or an institution of any kind without planning. I'm talking about a plan that would clarify how you will proceed, with whom, and what tools you will use, what the expectations are, and so on.
Clearly, I would not ask you what the departmental planning is tomorrow morning. You have been in your position for six months. I imagine that since then, you have been able to indicate what direction you want to go in: managing the public service as if you were managing a ranch or as if you were managing human beings. If you are managing human beings, you would say how you do it, whom you involve in the process, and how managers are encouraged to understand the human beings in front of them and not manage them by prodding them in the back so that they trip up.
I am fully aware that in some departments—I will not name them here—it will be extremely difficult to prepare an integrated plan. However, if you complete one, you will enable all members around the table to support you, as the department will not be able to sidestep the issue. At regular intervals, we will be in a position to say that there is a plan and that normally, it would take three or six months to reach a specific stage.
Is that where you are at?
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
That is what I am asking for.
I am going to introduce a motion, of course, and I will ask my colleagues to support me. That is the only way of proceeding so that you no longer have to deal with the unpleasant aspect of the situation; we will have to deal with it.
We are going to discuss that. I realize that I am doing something completely new today, but that way, Parliament will help the agency.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
That has long been the case, but it has never been put into practice.
5:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada
Yes. The departmental plans are contained in the Report on Plans and Priorities. You have those in Parliament.
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Yes, but they have never been put into practice, namely as regards gender-based analysis and harassment, and I can prove that to you.
5:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada
If that is something that is of particular interest to you, we could explore the issue in all of the plans.
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
If you wish. I am offering you transparent management, equity and justice. You can deal with it if you want to, because your mandate includes that. Otherwise—
5:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada
Planning is the plan. Then we ask the departments to do integrated planning. That takes time. Some are more advanced than others. I am prepared to provide you with a status report if you want. Otherwise, we can go at it a bit differently and examine specific aspects of the public service. We can do that as well.
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Do you have objectives in percentage terms for women and representatives of ethnic minorities?
5:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada
We have objectives. I will give them to you.
5:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada
Yes, we do.
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Thank you for appearing before us. I hope that certain questions will be answered.
I know that many people are starting to work part-time in the public service; they have a 90-day contract, for example. I can tell you that there are many people who want contracts like that, but some who could go and work at places like that won't go if they already have a full-time job. It might not be the best job, but they will not quit a secure job to accept a three-month contract that may not lead anywhere.
By always doing that, you are losing many good opportunities to find good staff. It's almost like an illness, because most employees who become permanent go that route. It is not as well planned. There is no planning at all.
5:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada
That is why we want planning.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
That is a major problem for you.
That is also why there is no equity in certain areas. There is a tendency to give full-time jobs to people we know, people we like, and they are people like us.
Thank you, and I hope you will be able to send us the reports on what you do shortly. It would be appreciated if you could give us the answers to the questions we have asked.