Evidence of meeting #52 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agreements.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Liliane Saint Pierre  Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions, Department of Public Works and Government Services
George Butts  Director General, Services and Specialized Acquisitions Management Sector, Acquisitions, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Marshall Moffat  Director General, Small and Medium Enterprises Sector, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Elaine Feldman  Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
Randy Heggart  Director of Procurement Review, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
Reagan Walker  General Counsel, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

You were saying that in a lot of cases you don't go to personal hearings. Is that what you indicated?

4:55 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Elaine Feldman

That's right.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

So you would just issue some kind of decision.,

4:55 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Elaine Feldman

We work on the basis of the submissions that have been filed. They comprise the record, which is open to all the parties in the case. We tend to make our decisions based on the written record, but if a party is unhappy with our decision, winner or loser.... Sometimes I believe both the winner and the loser have appealed to the Federal Court of Appeal because they don't like a certain part of the decision.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

Okay, that's fine. Thank you.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp

Thank you.

Mr. Nadeau.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, everyone.

When a company wishes to file a complaint, the process, which we have studied, seems relatively long. Furthermore, based on my reading, as part of the process, it would cost about $300,000 to reach a set of outcomes.

What exactly is the story on this process, and what stages does a company's complaint have to go through? I'm not asking you for a very detailed answer, but a rather general one.

4:55 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Elaine Feldman

Usually, from the moment the representatives of a company know there is a problem, they can try to resolve it with the department concerned. If there is no resolution, they can turn to the tribunal, but there are deadlines that must be very strictly observed. You have to file with the tribunal within 10 days after observing the problem. When a complaint is filed within 20 days, it can't be accepted. The tribunal is supposed to render decisions quite quickly. It usually tries to do that within 90 days, but that can go up to 135 days.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

I don't know you, and I'm not engaged in this profession, but I find that 10 days is quite a short deadline. We're talking here about observing deficiencies in the process, whether it's administrative or otherwise.

The table concerning complaints, which we've received, states that 330 complaints were withdrawn. Some complaints were not accepted, others were valid or not valid, and so on. That covers quite a long period. And yet it seems to me that there isn't a large number of complaints, considering the large number of corporations and potential disputes. So why 10 days?

5 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Elaine Feldman

My colleague tells me that's under the free trade agreements?

5 p.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

You're talking about free trade with the United States and Mexico?

5 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Elaine Feldman

I'm talking about NAFTA and the WTO agreement.

5 p.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Does the same thing apply to both small and large businesses?

5 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

5 p.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

From the moment the tribunal rules that a complaint is valid, how does the process work? You say you respond within 90 days, but time nevertheless elapses between the moment you rule that the complaint is valid and the moment when each of the parties appears before you, doesn't it?

5 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

5 p.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

No, not at all?

5 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Elaine Feldman

As I said, we usually receive a complaint in writing. The members of the tribunal decide whether or not to accept the complaint for investigation purposes. That's the first step. If we decide to investigate, we send a copy of the complaint to the department concerned. The department then sends us its version of the events in writing, and the reason why, in its view, there was no violation of the agreements. Then the complainant sends us its comments on the department's response. Then the tribunal makes a decision. There usually isn't a hearing. The decision is based on the written representations that we've received.

5 p.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

It's based on the documents provided.

5 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

5 p.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Some small and medium-size businesses want to sell their services to the federal government. I live here in the region. The representatives of at least two businesses have told me that their chances were not as good because their businesses were located in Gatineau, not in Ottawa. These people have kept their businesses in Gatineau, but have opened an office in Ottawa. I don't know whether they did it to be more accessible and more visible, but the fact of being in Ottawa rather than Gatineau has enabled them to do better business. As the minister said when he appeared, changing postal codes is unacceptable. I'd like to know whether complaints in that regard have been filed by small and medium-size businesses.

5 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Elaine Feldman

No. I'll put the question to my colleagues and—

5 p.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

I know that's more specific, more local.

So, for the tribunal, regardless of the size or annual revenues of the business?

5 p.m.

Vice-Chair, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Elaine Feldman

Regardless of the business, provided certain rules are complied with. Among other things, the amount of money involved in the complaint must be greater than a given amount.

5 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

Mr. Hawn.