Government Operations Committee on March 1st, 2018

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Colleagues, it being 11 a.m., I think we'll begin.

Today, we will be discussing supplementary estimates (C) and interim estimates.

We have two panels before us today. The first panel, which we have seated at the far end of this table, is from the Privy Council Office. We have Mr. Matthew Shea, Madam Jarvis, and Madam Godin.

Mr. Shea, I understand you have an opening statement. You know the procedures we follow around here, so please begin. If you can keep it to 10 minutes or less, we would appreciate it.

[Matthew Shea, Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Privy Council Office]

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

Thank you for inviting the Privy Council Office, PCO, to review our 2017-18 Supplementary Estimates (C) and our 2018-19 Interim Estimates.

My name is Matthew Shea, and I have been the new Chief Financial Officer of PCO since December 2017.

I'm accompanied today by Ms. Marian Campbell Jarvis, assistant secretary to the cabinet for social development policy, and Ms. Sylvie Godin, executive director of finance in the planning directorate of the corporate services branch at PCO.

As you know, the mandate of PCO is to serve Canada and Canadians by providing professional, non-partisan advice and support to the Prime Minister and ministers within his portfolio and to provide effective operation of cabinet.

PCO supports the development of Government of Canada policy, legislative, and government administration agendas, coordinates responses to issues facing the government and the country, and supports the effective operation of the cabinet.

PCO is led by the Clerk of the Privy Council, who acts as the secretary to the cabinet and the head of the public service.

PCO has three main roles.

First, we provide non-partisan advice to the Prime Minister, portfolio ministers, cabinet and cabinet committees on matters of national and international importance.

This includes providing advice and support on the full spectrum of policy, legislative, and government administration issues faced by the government.

Second, PCO is the secretariat to the Cabinet in all of its committees except the Treasury Board, which is supported by the Treasury Board Secretariat.

And third, PCO fosters a high-performing and accountable public service.

I would also add that, like the Department of Finance and TBS, PCO is a central agency, and as such exercises a leadership role across government departments and agencies to provide advice to the Prime Minister and cabinet and to ensure coherence and coordination of policy development and delivery.

Now I will begin by providing you with an overview of PCO's 2017-18 authorities to date, and will continue with some remarks about the 2017-18 supplementary estimates (C).

In addition to the $144.9 million received via the main estimates for 2017-18, PCO sought an additional $34.4 million in 2017-18 supplementary estimates (A) for the operations of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls and was given access to a carry-forward of $5.3 million, as well as collective bargaining funding of $2.3 million, to bring our total authorities to $186.9 million.

PCO also sought an additional $34.3 million in 2017-18 supplementary Estimates (B), bringing the total 2017-18 authorities to $221.2 million. The additional resources were used to

continue one of our Budget 2016-17 initiatives, which is the information management and information technology project, that consists of the replacement and upgrade of the current IT infrastructure, the modernization of PCO systems, the introduction of new information sharing, business intelligence and reporting solutions, and transitioning its top secret Canadian network.

Also, we got money to lead the establishment of NSICOP and its secretariat. PCO received funds to cover costs for NSICOP's accommodation, security, IT, and salary until NSICOP received its own appropriation in December 2017.

We also received funding to fund a study led by OECD to assess the current state of innovation in the public sector and propose areas of action to reinforce capacity to innovate and thereby deliver better outcomes for citizens and government. We're now seeking an additional $1.6 million in supplementary estimates (C), bringing the total authorities to $222.8 million for the year.

The additional resources will be used as follows: $1.4 million for the implementation of the centre for expertise for the Impact Canada initiative within PCO to lead and provide support to partner departments in the use of challenges and other outcomes-based funding approaches to improve results for citizens.

This funding has been earmarked for the establishment of the Impact Canada centre of expertise, which will work with departments and agencies to design high-impact, outcomes-based initiatives; measure impact; and share what works.

Under this approach, the Government of Canada will open up the problem-solving process to innovators who can bring fresh perspectives and new ideas, through the use of prizes and challenges, and will pay for success instruments, such as social impact bonds, behavioural insights, and impact-measurement methodologies.

Work under the Impact Canada initiative is already under way. Infrastructure Canada launched the Smart Cities Challenge in November 2017, and communities across Canada are currently developing proposals to win some of the $75 million in prize funding available.

Other key areas of focus for future outcomes-based initiatives are being developed by Natural Resources Canada around clean technology.

We are also requesting $1 million for the establishment of a lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and two-spirited—LGBTQ2—secretariat within PCO to support the work of the special adviser on LGBTQ2 issues and the development and coordination of the government's LGBTQ2 agenda.

A priority for the Government of Canada is to strengthen diversity and inclusion to ensure all Canadians have the opportunity for full economic and social participation in society. This includes the promotion of equality for LGBTQ2 Canadians, protection of their rights, and responses to discrimination against them, both historical and current.

To this end, the Prime Minister appointed Mr. Randy Boissonnault as the special adviser on LGBTQ2 issues, the first such role. And the LGBTQ2 secretariat, the government's first team fully dedicated to LGBTQ2 issues, supports his mandate.

On November 28, 2017, the Prime Minister issued an apology to LGBTQ2 Canadians, which made clear to everyone that discrimination against them was wrong then and is wrong now, and that the Government of Canada will not let it happen again.

However, there is much work left to do to give LGBTQ2 Canadians the true meaning of equality embodied in the apology, the Human Rights Act, and the charter.

An amount of $800,000 will be used to create a secretariat within PCO to support the Working Group of Ministers on the Review of Laws and Policies Related to Indigenous Peoples.

The Government of Canada is committed to a renewed nation-to-nation, Inuit-to-crown, and government-to-government relationship with first nations, Inuit, and Métis people, based on the recognition of rights, respect, co-operation, and partnership.

On February 22, 2017, the Prime Minister announced the establishment of a working group of ministers responsible for reviewing relevant federal policies, laws, and operational practices to help further a nation-to-nation relationship with indigenous peoples.

One year into its mandate, the working group has engaged with a number of national and regional indigenous leaders and experts, and has sent letters to over 600 indigenous groups and organizations, in order to identify priority laws, policies, and operational practices for the review. The working group will continue to engage indigenous leaders, youth, and experts based on these priorities as it assesses and recommends changes to laws and policies that will meet Canada's commitments to advance reconciliation.

This new funding is partially offset by a transfer of $2.1 million to NSICOP. As previously indicated, PCO has received funding in the supplementary estimates (B) for the establishment of NSICOP. As at December 13, 2017, when NSICOP received its own appropriation, PCO had expended $200,000 of the $2.3 million received, resulting in an unspent balance of $2.1 million being transferred to NSICOP to be used for their appropriations.

This comprises the major needs and initiatives to be funded through PCO's proposed supplementary estimates (C).

The 2018-19 interim estimates were tabled the same day as the supplementary estimates (C).

PCO is requesting $37.6 million in their 2018-19 interim estimates, which represents one-third of the 2018-19 main estimates' program expenditures of $150.3 million. This funding will support PCO financial requirements for the first three months of the 2018-19 fiscal year.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to provide you with this context.

We would be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you, Mr. Shea.

We'll start with our usual seven-minute round, and we'll start with Majid Jowhari, for seven minutes, please.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome.

I'd like to start by asking Mr. Shea about the estimate of $1.8 million under vote 1c.

I understand this fund is allocated to establish two secretariats: one, as you stated, for the LGBTQ2—I would like to add a plus to it—as well as the other one as it relates to a secretariat for indigenous people.

I have a couple of questions on that one. Number one, is this a one-time expenditure, or...? I was trying to follow the train of thought of the $2.1 million, and then the $37.6 million, and then the $150 million. Could you tell me whether it's a one-time expenditure or not, number one?

Number two, is there any portion that's going to one secretariat or the other?

Let's start with those two questions. I have another one that may or may not get answered as we go along.

[Matthew Shea]

I know I mentioned a lot of numbers in my opening remarks.

The $1.8 million you referenced is for the current fiscal year; it is part of the budget 2017 announcement of $3.6 million over three years for the establishment of the LGBTQ2 secretariat and $3.1 million over three years for the establishment of the review of laws and policies for indigenous people. All that is to say this is the first year of those three years of funding, so it's not one-time funding. It will continue.

The breakdown for LGBTQ2 is about $974,000, and it's a little over $838,000 for the review of laws and policies, and that gives you the total of $1.8 million.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay. Can you expand on the scope of the work for the second secretariat, as I call it, the review of laws and policies related to indigenous people? Specifically, that secretariat is set to be able to facilitate what, or review what laws?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis, Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Social Development Policy, Privy Council Office]

The review of laws secretariat has a broad mandate to look at all laws, policies, and operational guidelines in the Government of Canada, and how they correspond with the United Nations declaration for indigenous people, as well as principles for the government's relationship with indigenous people, and the Constitution's section 35.

To do that scope of work, there are a few phases. The initial phase was engagement, and now we're moving into looking at some of the laws and policies that are under way in the government.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Great. As part of that engagement, what other government departments are being considered in setting up this secretariat and reaching out to make sure it has an opportunity to cover all aspects, rather than just one specific one?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Mr. Chair, the review of laws secretariat has a broad, Government of Canada-wide mandate. The laws that are being looked at include engagement with the Department of Justice and their expertise in how legislation is drafted. One major piece of legislation that was brought forward recently was the environmental assessment and regulatory review, which involved engagement with Environment and Climate Change Canada as well as Natural Resources Canada.

There's a commitment and recommendation from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to look at indigenous languages, so the Department of Canadian Heritage has been involved in that. Really it is quite government-wide, touching the mandates of most government departments.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

So the scope is broad, and the scope is encompassing, which is great.

Now I go back to Mr. Shea with this question. Do you have enough funds, and do you have enough resources to be able to make sure that this secretariat is properly set up and is going to be able to address the scope of work that needs to be done?

[Matthew Shea]

When we do Treasury Board submissions, we estimate the cost we need, and we do a thorough costing. To the best of our ability, we make sure that there are enough funds available.

The funding that we've requested though supplementary estimates (C) we believe is enough funding to properly fund what my colleague has explained.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Let's go to the $1.4 million under 1(c) for implementation of the Impact Canada Initiative to solve some of Canada's big challenges. I notice you touched on a couple of them, smart cities and the other one around green tech within Natural Resources. I know the secretariat is about to get set up.

Can you give us an idea of what these big challenges are, and again I'm going to ask the same question. Do you believe the $1.4 million is enough for you to be able to set it up and also staff it properly to deal with this in partnership?

[Matthew Shea]

We have already started work on setting up that secretariat. That secretariat is staffed right now. We're already doing work with a number of departments.

It's important to remember that the PCO's role in this as the centre of expertise is providing that expertise to other departments. Each government department will go out, if they want to do one of these, and they'll use our terms and conditions, as we call them, that were established for use by other government departments, but in the end, they'll seek their own funds.

Looking at the NRCan model, they have their own funds to launch their own initiative under this. We, as a department, have enough money requested through supplementary estimates (C) to fund the secretariat, and it would be up to departments to allocate funding to do programming under this.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Can you give me an example of your specific role when it came to smart cities, or that secretariat role when it came to the smart city program?

[Matthew Shea]

The centre of expertise would work with the department and would come up with ideas at the program creation stage to look at innovative ways we could do this and ways we can incentivize outcomes.

Really, this is about moving from processes and outcomes to really trying to find out the impacts that we're trying to get and paying for results in the end. We look at these innovative approaches in that secretariat working with that department, but ultimately that department implements it.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

But you also—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. McCauley, you have seven minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Good morning. Welcome.

I'll go right to the changes to these estimates, structural changes and changes to voted authorities. There's a line at the very bottom, “Privy Council Office is amending Vote 1 for authority to spend revenues received from the provision of intelligence analyst training.” What is that, exactly, please?

[Matthew Shea]

Within our intelligence branch, we have a training program that's used by other government departments, and we cost recover. They pay a cost for using the training, and we recover that.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It's purely a cost recovery.

[Matthew Shea]

It's a cost recovery from departments. We get the funding, and we centrally do the training for the other departments. We get revenue from them. This is in keeping with what a number of departments do that provide services to other government departments.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay, that's fair.

I brought this up last year when PCO was in estimates. I want to go back, quote July 16 for the Prime Minister about tasking the PCO with solving Phoenix. It's something I've engaged in personally and tasked the Clerk of the Privy Council to oversee.

I am just wondering what the PCO's role in Phoenix was. What have they accomplished, or have they just kind of passed it off?

[Matthew Shea]

Mr. Chair—