Would that—
Evidence of meeting #132 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was phoenix.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #132 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was phoenix.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Your time is over.
We now go to Mr. McCauley for seven minutes.
Go ahead, please.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Ms. Lemay, when did you know that Mr. Liddy had been told by IBM not to go ahead with Phoenix? I'm just curious. In all the meetings we've had, it never once came up.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
You are telling me right now? Because I still don't have anything that says IBM told him not to go ahead.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
IBM testified in front of the Senate. Are you not aware of that testimony in the Senate?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I am. I believe the way IBM said it was that they had.... Let me refresh my memory.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
It said specifically to not go ahead with the pilot and that Phoenix wasn't ready.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It was the pilot. Then it was moved. That was when the move was supposed to be in the fall, and then it was moved to the spring.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
This was around November or December of 2015. Were you aware of that?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It was that move from the fall that was moved to the spring. That's when they said not to go ahead.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Everybody was aware of it because they moved. The launch was supposed to be in the fall.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I know. Were you aware of IBM saying not to do the pilot project and that Phoenix was not ready?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes. I was aware that IBM was engaged with the team, and the team decided not to go ahead and to actually move it after discussions with the DMs, and the whole process. That part was known by everyone.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
It came up from what Ms. Mendès was saying about the quick pay for federal contractors. I'm not sure if you are going to be able to answer. One of the issues that has been brought up is extending the quick pay process for the subcontractors.
Do you know if we're planning to extend that to the subcontractors as well, or just follow the Ontario model, which I think just has the contractors on the quick pay?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
There are obviously jurisdictional issues with the federal government compared to the provincial government, but what we're looking at—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
No, I'm talking about federal government projects. Do you know if that will extend to subcontractors?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
What we're looking at is the adjudication process, and we're looking at the terms of payment. In that sense, yes, it would.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
You mean to the subcontractors? Excellent. That's great news.
On page 11 you talk about a social procurement pilot. Could you let us know what that is?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I believe that's the apparel one.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
“PSPC will...continue to develop approaches regarding green and social procurement proposals, conduct social procurement pilots....”
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
What we've done, for example, is to require a certification for apparel suppliers to ensure that their supply chains comply with good practices in terms of not having child labour and that sort of thing.
Conservative
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We've done a pilot on that one.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Okay.
On Bill C-344, with regard to the community benefits, I have asked several times if we have costed out what that will cost the taxpayers. Also this extends to the small and medium-sized enterprise procurement study we have been working on for quite a while in a non-partisan fashion. We've heard repeatedly that paperwork and uncertainty around contracts make it difficult and proportionally exclude women-led small businesses.
Have we done a study on what Bill C-344 will do to that issue but also to add to costs for taxpayers?