Government Operations Committee on April 10th, 2019

[LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw]

Yes, I agree. When the policy was being developed, in 2011, that was one of the questions asked. It was a matter of determining whether the policy should be entrusted to National Defence or Veterans Affairs Canada. At that time, the decision was made to give that responsibility to National Defence, but, owing to laws, National Defence did not want to take it. I think that entrusting it to National Defence would be the best option.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I'm afraid we're out of time, but hopefully you will have another opportunity.

We'll now go to Madam Mendès for seven minutes, please.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

At the very least, I will try to continue for a little while in French, like Ms. Laverdière. I may switch to English afterwards.

Mr. Zimmermann, you brought up the advisory committee you sat on in the late 1990s. I would like to know whether any recommendations came out of that advisory committee on the transition from military to civilian life, especially in employment and, if so, what they were.

[Wolfgang Zimmermann]

Well, it was between 2004 and 2010 that I was part of the committee. The recommendations at that time were exactly the same as I think I'm presenting today, that individuals should not be allowed to depart from DND without a very clear game plan going forward, one that has return to work and continued employment as a critical element of the expected outcome. I mean, we all identify with what we do for a living, because being successfully employed is what gives us our basis for economic participation, for social participation and for our own psychological health in the workplace. My view—and I think the recommendation in those days as well—is that there simply has to be a level of creativity brought to this.

What I saw in those days, and what we continue to see, is that sure, somebody who has served may not go into an office tower down the road, but why would they not be retrained for a career within Parks Canada or CBSA? Why would they not be retrained for a career, as Mr. Richards said, within Fisheries and Oceans or as a labour inspector within the labour program at Employment and Social Development? There is no reason. The key is to bring creativity and outside-the-box thinking to this as opposed to “this is how we've always done it”.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

I completely agree with you. I do think that creativity is about looking beyond the simple job description of traditional public servants we may have in mind. It is about looking further.

While they are still active, before they become veterans, military members mostly need to be reassured by their employer—National Defence—that, when it comes to their mental and physical health, they are capable of entering the labour market. That is also one of the problems. If an individual is physically or mentally fragile at the end of their military career, before transitioning to a civilian job, it is certain that conditions will not really be in their favour. Am I wrong?

Is there a period at the end of a military career when the military member is guided through what we may refer to as “recovery” or, at the very least, a period of recovery to good health to enter civilian life? Is that done?

Do you get my question? At the end of their military service, do they get, not just some training but some health care, mental and physical, to ensure that they are ready to enter civilian life?

[LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw]

No. I released in 2015, so I am probably the most recently released individual here and I can tell you I was responsible for the process. No. What you will hear from the leadership of the Canadian Armed Forces is that men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces are now released with everything in place. We're not seeing that.

I spoke to a veteran only last week who still did not have her pension or severance pay organized. She was already out and she was struggling with mental health issues. I'm saying this in English to be very clear.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

That's absolutely fine.

[LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw]

Men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces are still being released today, even though you hear otherwise, without having everything in place.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

What is the concierge for then?

[LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw]

When you hear what's about to happen, this is down the road. It's not in place today. The concierge is going to happen years down the road. It's being trialled in Borden right now.

It doesn't matter if you're released in any other place across the Canadian Armed Forces, you still have the same release process I went through three or four years ago.

It's a great-sounding program, but it's not there, so at VETS Canada, we still see men and women who are struggling with mental health issues.

I agree with Mr. Zimmerman. There is a group of individuals we need to pay more attention to prior to their being released. They should be held from being released until they have everything in place—the convalescence and the support. If not, it's disastrous on the other side.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you very much. That's exactly the point of my question.

[LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw]

That's why I said it in English.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you.

I asked about the concierge service because it looks very nice on paper. It sounds like a great idea.

[LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw]

It's only in Borden.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

What does it do?

[LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw]

What it's supposed to do—and it makes sense, as was mentioned—is to have someone who will work with you in the most difficult and complex cases, maybe one or two years prior to your release, to get all the pieces in place so that when you do leave, everything is ready.

For example, we may be talking about physicians or medical specialists.

You need your specialists in complex cases, be they psychiatrists, psychologists, physiotherapists—

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Medication.

[LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw]

Yes, medication.

On January 21, when I left the Canadian Armed Forces, the Canadian Armed Forces didn't call me and ask, “How are you doing today?”

I was gone. I was out. I had left the day before. That's the message I gave everyone I worked with. The day after you release, you're on your own.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Veterans Affairs didn't pick it up?

[LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw]

No.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

At no time?

[LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Deltell, go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Mesdames et messieurs, welcome to your House of Commons.

First of all, let me thank you sincerely for what you have done for our country. Yes, you are civil servants. You are among the best civil servants, and I want to pay respect to you all.

Through you, I want to salute the people in my riding.

In my riding, Louis-Saint-Laurent, I'm just a few kilometres away from the Valcartier military base, which is duly represented by my colleague from Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier. Of course, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of veterans in my riding.

Ten years ago, I initiated proceedings for the road going to the Valcartier military base to be renamed Bravoure Road, like the one in Ontario.

We think about you every day, as we enjoy the benefits of freedom and democracy. Thank you for the service you have provided and continue to provide to our country.

Mr. Zimmerman, you talked a few minutes ago about going from the field to the tower. When a soldier has passed all his life in the field, fighting for democracy and all of that, and then he has a job in a tower, in downtown Ottawa or elsewhere, there is a big challenge for all you guys to address.

In your experience, where do you stand on that? Do you think we offer enough help to those people who have to address civilian life after living in the army?