Government Operations Committee on May 6th, 2019

[Luc Généreux]

In my case, I was initially released in 2014, on a voluntary basis. After two years, in 2016, they told me that I was being released for medical reasons. At that time, I learned through newsletters, documents or newspapers that I was eligible to apply and that I had a set number of months to activate my priority status in the public service.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

The reason is that you were looking for the documents yourself. No one assisted you.

[Luc Généreux]

Exactly.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

What about you, Mr. Hicks?

[Robert Hicks]

I did the research. I was the one who told the public servants about the restrictions or requirements of the legislation at the start of the process, in 2012, 2013 or 2014. I was more of an expert than they were.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Wow!

What was your experience, Mr. Northey?

[Robert Northey]

Regarding my entitlement to priority hiring, I was told through SISIP, SCAN seminars and other peers who were getting out. For me, it was actually well known that I was entitled to priority hiring, especially as a medical release.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

What about you, Mr. Zerebecki?

[Fraser Zerebecki]

Yes, I was also told through the SCAN seminars. There was quite a period of time between the SCAN seminar and when I actually activated my priority. I had to go back and find out where to get that activation. I didn't anticipate it taking so long to get through even that process.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

I'll turn to you, Mr. Hicks. In your opening remarks, you shocked me a little bit, and I would even say that you shocked me a lot, when you said that you never received a response regarding the difference between emergency communications and crisis communications.

In your opinion, how does the skills recognition process work? How do we distinguish between the skills that you acquired during your military career and the skills that are needed in civilian life?

I have the impression that the process is as complicated as recognizing the skills of a foreign doctor.

[Robert Hicks]

Based on my experience with the situation, the reason was that they didn't want to hire me. It was an excuse that they found for not hiring me. The reason wasn't that a crisis doesn't mean an emergency or an emergency doesn't mean a crisis. The words are synonyms.

It was just an excuse to tell me that I didn't have the skills to participate in the competition and that they were going to turn to someone else.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

A number of you have spoken about the many barriers that must be overcome during the process. In your opinion, who should be held primarily responsible for the barriers that you need to overcome? Is there always a new person responsible for the barriers that emerge, or do we keep coming back to the same point?

[Luc Généreux]

I would say that there are barriers at several levels, in a number of departments. I've encountered barriers in the public service, at Veterans Affairs Canada and at the language centre.

To get back to your question, for example—

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Let me interrupt you.

Do you face the same barriers in each department, or is the process different depending on the department that you're applying to work for?

[Luc Généreux]

Each department has different barriers.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Wow!

[Robert Hicks]

I'd say that the same barriers exist everywhere. It's the same mentality from department to department. Human resources are the issue in the various departments.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Where will we find the solution? Will we find the solution to the barriers in each department's human resources service, or should the solution come from higher up, through a message sent to all levels?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I'm afraid we'll have to wait until the next round to get an answer to that.

Mr. Boissonnault, welcome to our committee. You have five minutes.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair. It's a great pleasure to be here. I can't believe I'm saying that about the OGGO committee; however, some of the reports I've read from this committee are really good soporifics.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I want to start by saying thank you. Thank you to each and every one of you for your service, and for all that you are and have learned about navigating the federal public service system.

North of my riding and north of Mr. McCauley's riding is 3rd Canadian Division Support Base Edmonton. We're very proud of Edmonton garrison and the women and men who serve there.

I have five minutes, so I'm going to go with short, sharp questions.

I'll start with you, Mr. Généreux.

You were a lieutenant-colonel. You have a great deal of experience. In particular, you managed 600 people.

In the public service, is there a series of equivalencies for the various skills that determine whether a person has the necessary skills for a specific position?

[Luc Généreux]

I'd say no, and I'll tell you an anecdote.

When I applied to work in the public service, I submitted my file by completing the requested form. The file was submitted to a classification expert. According to the decision, I could apply for an engineering apprenticeship position, which is usually given to a graduate with two years of experience or to an intermediate engineer.

I didn't stop there.

Before I left the Canadian Forces, my position had been classified, for civilian employment purposes—I was entitled to take a vacation—at the senior engineering level. I asked the classification expert whether I could appeal the decision. I had documents proving that my position had been classified at the senior engineering level. I sent the documents, and in the end, they told me that I was eligible to apply for senior engineering positions.

If I hadn't had access to those documents, I would have been eligible to apply for only engineering apprenticeship positions. These positions are given to engineers with two years of experience, whereas I have almost 30 years of experience.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Maybe the committee could consider this idea of equivalencies, so that the public service doesn't have reasons to go internal-only.

Mr. Northey, you said that something clicked at the end, you persevered and you found a good position. What, other than your perseverance, changed? What tilted things in your favour, so that you could find the job that you have?

[Robert Northey]

I had a hiring manager and a department that had the values and the ethics to follow the priority hiring program, and to believe in me enough and in my service to see the true value of what I could provide. I would go one step further. I work for DND right now, but in my department, I'm the only representative with previous military service.

I have the value of being able to navigate the system, understanding the chain of command, the culture, the day-to-day life of living in uniform. My department sees value in my being able to communicate that to the other civilians within the department.