Government Operations Committee on June 5th, 2019

Evidence of meeting #178 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Main Estimates 2019-20: Vote 1 under Canada Post Corporation, Vote 1 under Canada School of Public Service, Vote 1 under Canadian Intergovernmental Conference Secretariat, Vote 1 under Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board, Votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 and 40 under Department of Public Works and Government Services, Vote 1 under Office of the Governor General's Secretary, Vote 1 under Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Vote 1 under Office of the Public Se

Report on Plans and Priorities 2019-20 of the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat

Report on Plans and Priorities 2019-20 of Shared Services Canada

Report on Plans and Priorities 2019-20 of Public Services and Procurement Canada

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bill Matthews Deputy Minister, Public Services and Procurement Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Paul Glover President, Shared Services Canada

Les Linklater Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Glenn Purves Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Peter Wallace Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat

5:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Okay, it's my time.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. Welcome. This is your first meeting here.

You were part of the process where we have been trying to align the budget and the main estimates. When the government tried to do it from a reconciliation perspective, it put in a vote 40—a one-time vote. There were challenges with it. It was assumed that from a governance perspective, it was not the right thing to do because only one committee, which is ours, was able to review vote 40.

I know the government has listened and made changes. Could you tell us what are some of the changes going forward? How are you continuing to improve accountability and transparency so that we as MPs can understand the spending?

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Thank you for raising the topic of the budget implementation vote from last year, which I saw as a step forward from what we had before.

Before, we had a situation where the estimates were tabled first and the budget was tabled afterwards, so the estimates had no relation to the decisions being made by government through the budget as to what spending would be added for the year. That was the disconnect that you as a committee were aiming to improve.

It was improved by the budget implementation vote, by taking all of those budgetary items and putting them in one budget implementation vote, which was broken down by departmental and program intention for those funds so that when they were approved by Treasury Board and forwarded to the departments they could be tracked monthly online.

The committee's concerns that this was not going far enough were very valid. It was an important first step, but we needed to do more. That is exactly what Treasury Board did this year. It took the budgetary funds, broke them into the individual departments' allocations and named what program they were for. They were not discretionary funds for that department; they were targeted to a purpose outlined in the budget. Those funds are now scrutinized by the appropriate committee.

From my perspective and that of Treasury Board, this is another step forward, and a big one, in the direction Parliament has been asking for, which is to have faster and fuller ability to follow the money and to be accountable to Canadians for government spending.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Thank you for that.

When we look at the pillars in the budget and the estimate process, we looked at pillar four as well. In your departmental plans you talked about pillar four being the departmental plans being tabled the same day as the main estimates.

How are departments managing this new process? What are some of the challenges and opportunities that you see?

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

I'll take a crack at it, and because the officials with me are the ones who really had to wrestle with that, I'll turn it over to them as well.

One of the concepts here is that the departmental plans also need to align with the budget to help parliamentarians understand what's planned. The challenge is that when there were only a few weeks between the tabling of the budget and the tabling of the estimates and departmental plans, not all of that planned spending could be incorporated in the departmental plans. However, the departments very quickly worked to complete their plans and tabled supplementary pages to bring it to full alignment. That full alignment was in place before any of the committees were examining the estimates and the departmental plans. That is another piece of the puzzle, as you mentioned, pillar four, of reporting and information.