Evidence of meeting #24 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was paid.
A video is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
I hope collectively we will find solutions, because we are here today and because we want to resolve the issue. The past is the past, and now we need to move forward.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Thanks for joining us today. I certainly appreciate your heartfelt comments. I can certainly see that you are feeling every bit of what your team is feeling in Miramichi and throughout, so thank you very much.
I have some very quick questions for you.
You sat in and heard the earlier testimony today, so how comfortable are you with what has been proposed, what has been discussed today, going forward, knowing that we're not going to go back to the old system? The old system could have died any second, in which case there would be no pay for months.
5 p.m.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Leaving aside the original decision to go with the system in the first place, because what's done is done and though it has created a disaster, I don't think anyone wants to focus on the past.
5 p.m.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Leaving that aside, we feel as though the government has been taking progressive steps toward fixing this issue. Nonetheless, with all of those steps—the addition of resources in Miramichi, the creation of the temporary pay centres and the call centre, the additional training, the bringing in of the Phoenix people on the ground, the deputy minister and the minister visiting the Miramichi pay centre, the web form—all that's great, it all sounds great, but at the end of the day, people are still not getting paid. What I have to say to that is it's obviously not enough or they're not the right solutions, because it has not produced pay for public servants.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Okay, I'll take that as a low level of competence.
Ms. Lackie.
5 p.m.
National President, Government Services Union
Further to that point, yes, absolutely. I've spoken to members from the former compensation community to ask them to give some consideration to coming back in support. They are angry and irritated. They feel they were disregarded. They gave plenty of warning to the departments that this was not going to be a success. We've seen that demonstrated now. Bringing in new people off the street and introducing a very complicated and untested software program positioned for failure, or definitely for struggles, has meant that the people who are now administering pay are dealing on the front lines with having to deliver a product that's not appropriate.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I can't recall, but one of you mentioned 400 or 440 outstanding grievances, I think, that—
5 p.m.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
That's just from my membership, yes.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
You've said that a lot were from wave one. Were those formalized as grievances back then?
I ask because part of the issue that we're struggling with is that for so long we've heard that it was just 77 issues, and then we heard today from the deputy minister that while those 77 came through, those were only the ones that came through this one area.
Did no one communicate all these others?
5 p.m.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Honestly, when that figure came out—that 77—we had already filed more than 77 formal grievances just from PIPSC. So I was astounded. I couldn't figure out where that number came from. It just seemed—
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
We found out today those were only the ones reported through a certain area and not through all the others. That's what we've been trying to get at for quite a while.
5:05 p.m.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
At that point we had over 150 critical cases and over 300 total cases.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Ms. Lackie, you mentioned that you had met with the government several times, starting in early April, I think. Was that the same timeline when you started meeting, expressing some of your worries about the way the implementation was proceeding?
5:05 p.m.
National President, Government Services Union
Well, actually no. Since 2011 we've been meeting with the department and holding discussions. We've been part of a union consultation committee going forward as each wave progressed—one, two, and three—and as people were hired and going through their training process. So we've been involved since 2011 in a consultative relationship.
But then when we got to wave two and wave three, in particular, when files started to be transferred, our members were calling us and saying, “We're not ready. We're forced to work overtime. We have to do mandatory overtime. We simply are not ready.”
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Yes, the April meeting that Ms. Lemay referred to was a meeting between the president of the PSAC and me and the national executive vice-president of PSAC. We were there representing all of the unions with these issues. We presented issues, they presented solutions, but those solutions are still not producing pay today.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
We heard today about the priority one, two, and threes. I agree that the priority ones have to be the ones that we haven't paid, period.... Are you comfortable with how we, the government, have priorities one, two, and three set up, such that within x number of hours this person will be contacted, etc., or...?
5:05 p.m.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
I don't think it's fast enough, by the way, and we don't see those timelines being respected.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
But for sure, priority one is people who aren't being paid.
Let me give you an example of somebody who might fall into priority three but is critical: a nurse working part-time in the north, where they have troubles recruiting and retaining. They have a part-time nurse whom they rely on to work overtime, for example, and that nurse relies on her overtime pay in order to pay her mortgage, or whatever the case may be. That person would not necessarily be considered a priority in that system but is definitely a priority because we're now going to lose that critical public servant in that area because he or she is not being paid.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
