Government Operations Committee on Sept. 26th, 2016

[Magali Giroux]

You are talking about the five-point plan. To me, it is clear that we have to reject it. First, it is based on inaccurate figures from the Conference Board of Canada. I don't have them in my hands, but the fact remains that a deficit of $200 million or $300 million was expected for 2014. However, the corporation had a profit of $200 million instead. If it's not possible to forecast one year in advance and there is a $500 million mistake, I don't think it's reliable.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We've heard this from both the Conference Board and Ernst & Young, which is an internationally recognized consulting company. Why do think they have put forward, as you say, false numbers or incorrect numbers? These are both well-recognized and respected organizations, and yet—

[Magali Giroux]

I would like to add something.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

The numbers are numbers. How is it that yours are so far off from theirs?

[Magali Giroux]

Those are not our numbers, but Canada Post's.

As for Ernst & Young, I would like to be able to say that the figures they used are accurate, but I don't know. I asked to see the report, but my request was denied.

Usually, when there is a mandate review, we have access to the documents the committee or the task force used. But they refused to provide me with those documents.

[Steve Ferland]

Perhaps I can add something.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Briefly, we're short of time.

[Steve Ferland]

I will be very quick.

I would submit to the committee that there is perhaps an appearance of a conflict of interest. Pierre Lanctôt, who works for Ernst & Young and is one of the partners, helped develop the content used by the task force. He was Canada Post's chief financial officer from 2003 to 2009. So there is an appearance of a conflict of interest.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

One of the items that's come up a lot is pensions. We saw recently that Unifor and General Motors move to a new tier where anyone new from this date onward is going to go to defined contribution. Would you ever see yourself going to that to help save Canada Post and reduce costs, or do you not see it as a cost issue at all, and more the complete swing in the way Canada Post is operating?

If it's not an appropriate time to say, that's fine.

[Daniel Boyer]

The agreement with Unifor is private. The Fédération des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec and all the affiliated unions don't want a two-tier discriminatory system, one for new employees and another for former employees. We have actually called on the Government of Quebec to pass legislation to that end. We don't see how we could establish a system without the same benefits for Canada Post's workers.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

One of the things we've heard from Canada Post is that the regular letter delivery is dropping. I've seen information that says the biggest profit item per item is on letter delivery, so they're losing their biggest profit driver. Do you agree with that? What they're saying is that with Purolator, etc., the amount of profit from that is a small amount. Most of its profit is from the door-to-door or letter delivery in high-density areas, whether it's Montreal, or Toronto, etc.

[Steve Ferland]

We agree that the demand for the letter mail service is decreasing. I could answer with a question: why has Canada Post invested $2.5 billion in this service when it saw that the percentage of generated revenue was dropping significantly? Ask Canada Post that question.

[Magali Giroux]

I would like to add something to that.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I can't answer for them. It's a rhetorical question.

[Magali Giroux]

We are not denying that the demand for the letter mail service is decreasing. However, as it was amply pointed out, demand for parcel delivery is really booming. That's why Canada Post does not have a deficit. In addition, Canada Post could diversify its services, as is being done around the world.

We talked about a postal bank. I didn't have a lot of time to talk about that, but there are a lot of other services that could be provided, as other postal networks are doing elsewhere in the world. Do I have time to briefly elaborate on that?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We don't have the time.

[Magali Giroux]

A number of things could be done. In other parts of the world, insurance and telephone products are available. We know there's an Internet problem in some regions.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Do you believe that Canada Post, which is a government entity, should be competing with private industry in the private sector, when you say banking, insurance, etc.?

[Magali Giroux]

In terms of banking services, I don't see it as competition with private banks, because the banking system marginalizes a segment of the population. People are left behind by the banking system. With $35 billion in profits, I don't think that any of the six banks will go bankrupt in the next year because Canada Post introduced a postal bank.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Trudel, you have seven minutes.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for their presentations. They are very much appreciated.

Earlier, you gave a short presentation on postal banks. The task force report brushed that option aside. Could you elaborate on that? Does Canada Post have the necessary infrastructure to set up a postal bank and are the employees qualified to do that job?

[Magali Giroux]

In terms of infrastructure, we talked about this aspect. There are 6,300 postal outlets in the country. It is the largest infrastructure network. We are everywhere, in all the small villages and small communities.

As for the qualifications of employees, it is important to note that we are already providing a lot of services, such as money transfers and money orders . We have trained, reliable employees.

For instance, I am a letter carrier, but I also went to university. I have a general and life insurance agent certificate. In addition, I worked as a financial planner in a credit union for five years. I think some of our members are trained and some could very well be trained.

Mr. Boyer, would you like to continue?

[Daniel Boyer]

I don't think there should really be any doubts about the skills of the postal workers.

In terms of expanding Canada Post's range of services, that would be fantastic for the simple reason, as mentioned, that bank services are less and less accessible in the regions. In addition, we heard this morning on the radio that the Laurentian Bank was going to announce on Wednesday that there would no longer be teller services.

Credit unions first eliminated the number of service counters and then the number of ATMs. In the regions, there are fewer and fewer banking services, while we have 6,300 postal outlets across Canada, which could make those services available to remote communities.

If we no longer want the regions and we want to concentrate everything in large centres, that's one thing, but I don't think that's what we want either in Quebec or in Canada. We hope that our regions will be revitalized. We want local and regional development. Canada Post can play a significant role in providing banking and many other services.

[Steve Ferland]

This morning, I was here for the presentations of some of the groups before the committee. Some were representing people with reduced mobility and seniors. One of the services we are proposing is support for seniors or people with reduced mobility.

Since letter carriers go door to door, why not ask them to ring the doorbell whenever possible. We do that already as letter carriers. We know our clients and we know who lives where. Why not include this in the schedule and tasks of carriers, asking them to ring the doorbell to make sure that the person is doing well? We often hear that people have fallen and that they've been lying on the floor for two or three days. Since the population is aging in Canada, this would be a good service that we could provide to the public.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

The task force report also talks about the moratorium on post office closures. Could you fully explain what the moratorium means and what the repercussions would be for both post offices and municipalities if the moratorium were lifted?