Government Operations Committee on Oct. 4th, 2016

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Right.

One thing that has been developing in Alberta through our chamber networks there is payment services, insurance services. The chambers are kind of pre-entrepreneurial. You are very connected to local business people and you try to give them a hand up and to figure things out.

We keep talking about postal banking and adding more services to Canada Post to sustain it financially. My colleague was alluding to the fact that there is a $700-million shortfall expected by 2026, so this committee's goal is to find a means to offset that shortfall. The chamber network already exists, and it's a model that has worked for over a century. Why can't we let businesses basically solve their own issues? Do you have comments about that?

[Adrian White]

They will. They'll find a way. Businesses that you haven't even heard of today will come out of the woodwork to establish themselves and fill the void, if one is generated. If there is a cheaper approach, business will look for it and find it, and competitors will provide it. That's inevitable.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

My next question goes back to the labour disruption concept. If, for some reason, there was a labour disruption, either employer or employee, what would happen to businesses over a quarter or two quarters? Locally, you said, they would use courier services. How sustainable is that for local businesses? How long can they do it before they just can't do it anymore?

[Adrian White]

It would be a shame if that happened, because other postal systems around the world would be operating and Canada would not have one, so there would be a disadvantage to business. If all countries around the world didn't have one, that would be fine—that would be a level playing field—but for us not to have that service over a long period of time would definitely impact us on the cost side Those costs would not be that easy to pass along to customers if we are operating in the global business community, as most of our members are, here in this community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Our final intervenor will be Madame Ratansi.

You have five minutes, please.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you all for coming and giving your input.

I would like to ask Ms. MacEachern a question. You say, both of you, that there was labour peace for 15 years, before 2011. What happened in 2011?

[Gordon MacDonald]

Stephen Harper decided he wanted to destroy all unions and public services in Canada.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay, fair enough. That's your opinion.

[Gordon MacDonald]

I believe so.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

In 2011, a new management team came in, and you had problems with the new management team throughout that period. Is that correct?

[Gordon MacDonald]

He was hired by Stephen Harper.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Could you please respond?

[Kristen MacEachern]

About the problems in 2011...?

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Yes.

[Kristen MacEachern]

As we were saying earlier, it has been a complete cut-off of communication. It's a one-way communiqué—ours going in this direction, with a closed door, and his coming this way, with a closed door.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Perhaps it was that the management was given directions. They are public servants and they were given directions.

Now we are being given different directions, and there is no privatization. There is a Canada Post charter, which says it has to be sustainable, and there is no privatization, no matter what anybody on the other side says. If we are to look at the complete picture.... We are here to get ideas, and you've given us ideas. I know that postal banking has succeeded in different parts of the world, in different iterations—i.e., it started off as a postal bank and then was privatized, or vice versa.

How do we move forward now? You've told us that they wasted $2 billion on restructuring routes, that $210 million has been spent on CMBs, and that a crisis has been created to create a void. You are saying there is a void. If you create a crisis, then you have a void.

Let's leave that aside and say we are moving forward. Would you work with management, if it is given a different direction?

[Gordon MacDonald]

Absolutely. I don't see us not working with management if we're going to try to grow the corporation.

When you look at our labour unrest since January, the corporation was basically giving its work away. It was like McDonald's sending its customers over to Burger King. It was telling our customers not to come to the post office because it had a labour dispute going on.

The CEO of Canada Post is paid somewhere in the vicinity of $500,000 and was being paid to basically destroy the corporation over the last 10 months.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

If there is such a toxic environment—

[Gordon MacDonald]

That's unreasonable.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

—is there going to be labour peace?

[Gordon MacDonald]

If they keep trying to take away the things we fought so hard for, the benefits and rights we enjoy today as working people in Canada working for the government as a public service, there will never be labour peace.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay.

Mr. White, your group has small and medium-sized enterprises, and you feel that Canada Post is moving into an e-commerce area, which is not keeping up with your 70-year-olds. Is it not accommodating you in any way? It is delivering mail, at the moment, to your businesses, isn't it? They are receiving their invoices and cheques. Is there anything you think your business owners are not receiving from Canada Post?

[Adrian White]

Not at this time, no. My only concern is the evolution of the change and how fast it might go.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay. You're saying change and evolution, and we need to evolve, because we are in the 21st century. There are suggestions here about retail banking, postal banking, and other venues to expand. As a small business, what would your premise be if you wanted to make it a continuous, growing business? How would you move forward to ensure that all your irritants were over?

[Adrian White]

Do you mean if I were running the post office?