Government Operations Committee on Oct. 4th, 2016

[Cecil Clarke]

The Union of Nova Scotia Municipalities at this point has not discussed or been asked to discuss this matter. I can take that back to the membership for discussion. I won't speculate on what my colleagues would want to bring forward, but our annual meeting is in November. These types of things do get raised at that level.

Suffice it to say that I think everyone is open-minded to whatever ideas the corporation can present that would add value. We also know how many people get assistance at a post office with their passport applications and receive that level of front-line service to help them better navigate the system. There's an example of a service that has real value. More and more Canadians have to have a passport and/or renew one, and people do not object to having that local access and not have to travel, in this case, to Halifax to have in-person service. Are those things that can be transferred to Canada Post through the other aspects of government delivery?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr McCauley, you have seven minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for hosting us. One of our caucus colleagues, Lisa Raitt, who is from Cape Breton, is eloquent on the beauty of the area. She's certainly very right. It's wonderful to be back here after being away for a long time.

Mr. Cormier, you commented on going door to door and on feedback from your constituents, which is wonderful. We do the same thing. Do you get a sense that they're aware that Canada Post, for those who have community mailboxes, will collect the mail for those who have mobility issues and will deliver once a week to a residence?

[Lowell Cormier]

I didn't pick that up from anybody. Maybe they're aware of it, but they weren't articulating that to me. That's interesting.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We've been chatting with a lot of municipalities about consultations. We heard one mayor—I won't say where—who commented that he refused to consult because it wasn't his opinion that Canada Post should be making changes. Then we hear from seniors' groups that they want to have more input.

Do you think the best way to consult on changes with Canada Post is to do it at the municipal level, because you are closest to the grassroots? The reason I ask is that it's impossible to consult every single group. Is it best to go through the urban municipality level for any changes, etc.? Not that I want to download more burden on you.

[Lowell Cormier]

I think it's an excellent avenue, because we're the closest to it. If you couldn't consult with every municipality, you could at least do it with the major groups like the UNSM. You could hit the umbrella groups who represent the municipalities. I know our citizens would become very engaged in that.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

So would service groups and seniors' groups.

Mr. Clarke, you mentioned about Canada Post consulting, but then items that municipalities requested were not followed. Were any items that you had suggested or requested followed, or is there a sense that it was just a complete roadblock to your reasonable suggestions?

[Cecil Clarke]

With regard to inconsistency, an urban-intense area like Halifax has much more direct connectivity and daily contact compared with other areas of the province, where municipalities felt they were not as connected. The one thing that municipal governments do have, which is no different from the structure of this consultation, is very defined, consistent public participation processes.

Using municipal units for public feedback to parliamentary committees or to the corporation allows for a respectful forum and exchange of information and objectivity in presenting that information. I believe municipalities definitely desire to be engaged and be constructive and to add value. Again the challenge is knowing that it's going to have an effect.

As an example, as mayors, every time there is a reduction of service or a closure of a post office, we receive the obligatory notification from Canada Post. I would circulate that to my colleagues. In some cases, we brought it to the council chamber and then went through the process of writing back with some objections, but it really is a pro forma process: we know we're going to receive it and we know that nothing is really going to happen. It's just going through the process for notification. That has been consistent over a long period of time.

Again, if there is a desire to have an established public participation process through municipalities, they would welcome that opportunity to provide objective, fact-based, and hopefully reliable information in a constructive manner.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Cormier, what's the ratio between community mailbox and door to door?

[Lowell Cormier]

I would be guessing.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

A ballpark figure is fine.

[Lowell Cormier]

Out of about 10,000 residents and 4,000 houses, maybe 10% would be mailboxes. We're mostly door to door.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay. Do you know in the general area of Cape Breton?

[Cecil Clarke]

I wouldn't have that statistic. I would have to rely on Canada Post officials to give that information. I know the location issue is a real matter of concern, especially when it's on, in some cases, highway roads rather than just a rural or suburban road, and there are safety concerns. There's also the sighting and the maintenance.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

There's certainly an opportunity to get everyone more involved.

I was curious about your level of participation, because this mayor said, “I don't want it, so we're not going to chat”, and I said he was hurting his constituents.

[Cecil Clarke]

To the point you made to Councillor Cormier—an observation that the corporation would be willing to provide door-to-door delivery in an aging demographic—quite frankly, look at the number of disabled people. You're going to have a high request factor there. In an urban setting, those are challenges.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That's fair, and that's what has to be done.

[Cecil Clarke]

Right, but it depends on the community's needs. I don't think an application...I really don't believe comparing us to what the delivery in Nunavut is going to be is a good thing. What I would look at is that in Nova Scotia, we can provide context of what Nova Scotians would be interested in.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay, thanks.

You brought up a good point. There are very clearly two different worlds there. There are the big cities where people think the post office is a Shoppers Drug Mart and there are rural areas, where it's very different.

Very briefly, because we're almost out of time, you talked about the subsidy and what people want. We're seeing everywhere people want as many services as they can get—you're not alone in that—but the survey that's been done shows very clearly that Canadians don't want to pay higher taxes and also don't want to pay for higher-cost stamps. Do you think your constituents would support paying higher taxes to support...?

[Lowell Cormier]

I think you're 100% right.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

What I'm getting at is there is no free lunch.

[Lowell Cormier]

People don't want to pay higher taxes. It would be the question of how much for what service.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Duvall, you have seven minutes, please.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, gentlemen, for coming. You do have a beautiful province here. It's gorgeous.

On the consulting part, did any of your municipalities consult with Canada Post, and were your residents consulted, or was there just a letter, a question and answer, and please mail it in?

[Lowell Cormier]

I'm not aware of any consultation. Maybe Cecil is, but I'm not aware of any consultation with Canada Post.