Evidence of meeting #79 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wrongdoing.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm just trying to get to what they determined as savings.
6:10 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, they included turning people down. For example, if a claim that was allowed was $4,000, that would be $4,000 given to that claimant. That was saving $4,000 because we didn't allow the claim, as well as charging a penalty.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Were you ever told to not follow the EI Act when turning down claimants?
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Did they ever hint at anything like that, to not follow the act?
6:10 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes. It was hinted that we should find ways to.... “Oh, but he didn't go to the appointment he had for his work, and—”
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
The reason I ask is this. The EI Act is very clear. It sets out very clear boundaries and very clear rules. What I'm trying to get at—and again, I'm talking about whistle-blowing—is whether people within the department told you to, basically, break the law or ignore the act, as required. You're saying they did.
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
They did in the sense that they push you so much to intimidate with your questioning. You can find fault easily with people when you intimidate and ask questions.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Were these quotas ever put in writing to you as part of a performance...?
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
When this was presented to you, what were your thoughts; what were your next steps? Did you consult with the union about the whistle-blowing? What should you do? Did you look it up online? Is this correct or not? When you decided this was wrong, what were the next steps you took?
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
When I saw this was wrong, it was more about some cases that we were talking about in everyday life in the office. We were saying this person should be allowed. It was not the quotas and the 40,000 and everything....
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
It's very disconcerting because in my time spent as an appeals chair, a lot of latitude was given to the EI commissioners to approve or deny, which is why you have the appeals from both the government and the claimant. But you felt that was taken away, that they were pushing you the other way?
Did the union ever explain why they didn't direct you to the whistle-blower path instead of filing a grievance?
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
No, I don't know. They said I had to go through the grievance process and when it went all the way to the end, then I'd be in the Labour ....
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Go to arbitration.
Who did you talk to within the department?
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I spoke with my team leader, my manager at Harbour Centre.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Did you express to them that this was wrong, that we need to fix this or why are we doing this?
I'm trying to figure out what they were telling you.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Did they direct you to other avenues of addressing this?
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
No, they didn't give me any other avenues. They just said it was not a good job for me or I was too sensitive to do that type of job. I was used to giving money to people. Here we take money away from people; that was my manager telling me that.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Did the harassment reprisal start immediately when you brought it forward?
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Did you say why are you doing this or it just went full blown on you?