Evidence of meeting #79 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wrongdoing.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Anne Marie Smart  Chief Human Resources Officer, Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Carl Trottier  Assistant Deputy Minister, Governance, Planning and Policy Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
David Yazbeck  Partner, Raven, Cameron, Ballantyne & Yazbeck LLP
Sylvie Therrien  As an Individual

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

Sylvie Therrien

It was part of a solution, but it was not really a solution because the reprisals continued and were even worse.

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Was that brokered with the help of your union? Or was this offered to you just when you started going up the levels?

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

Sylvie Therrien

It was not with the union.

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

It was just part of the process.

When you came on board at any point in your career, did anyone ever inform you of any of your rights under the whistle-blower act? Did it ever get mentioned? I know that no one is going to mention the exact name of the act, but did it ever get mentioned anywhere along the line by any of the bosses or any of the people you spoke to as you went up the levels, or by anyone in HR?

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

Sylvie Therrien

Not at all.

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Was there anyone else involved? You mentioned a few people elsewhere noticing that what they were doing was wrong. Did anyone else stick their neck out or speak out about it? Had you heard through the grapevine of anyone else who went through experiences similar to those you had?

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

Sylvie Therrien

It was not talked about openly, because of course they didn't want to be put through the same grinder that I was in. As I said, it was mentioned by that guy and another person as well. They—

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Did they mention it to you, or to the supervisors?

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

You're not aware of anyone else mentioning it to the supervisors.

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Mr. Ayoub.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Therrien, how long had you been in that position when you blew the whistle?

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

Sylvie Therrien

It was a new job. I started working there in October, and I made the disclosure in January.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

So it was a new job.

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Had anyone else in your organization made such disclosures?

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

Sylvie Therrien

No, but I remember meeting people at Service Canada during a fundraising activity for me in Quebec. For a few minutes, we were in the Service Canada offices in the Lower St. Lawrence and....

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

I would like to move quickly, as we have only five minutes.

So no one else had....

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

Sylvie Therrien

Yes, a person who worked at Service Canada in the Lower St. Lawrence told me that it was true and that I did well to disclose what was happening.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

However, they did not suffer any consequences.

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

Sylvie Therrien

They said that to me alone. They did not....

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

No one heard about it. There were no other consequences.

6:35 p.m.

As an Individual

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Were you told that this had to do with internal management, with the administration, and that it was not a wrongdoing? Were you told that it really had to do with the administration, that the department was managed in that way and that no wrongdoing was being committed?