Evidence of meeting #17 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was institutions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
Do you think these exemptions or provisions are therefore justified?
7:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I believe this is justified in situations where there could be real prejudice to commercial value or trade secrets. The problem that is often mentioned is that, since it involves a danger of prejudice it's difficult to demonstrate. In any event, the protections offered by the act in this regard are entirely justified.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
In this day and age, intellectual property is often the only bargaining chip for some companies. You may therefore find it appropriate for our access-to-information regimes to protect such intellectual property or trade secrets.
7:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
I can't think of a more topical and commercially interesting subject than vaccines, anywhere in the world. In your opinion, it would therefore be justified to withhold certain information at the insistent request of companies.
7:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
We should see what information is being requested to be redacted. There are always ways to release information while protecting the merchant's secret information.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
7:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Right now, when an institution receives an access to information request, it has an obligation to disclose information. That is the first obligation. Then, it must determine which parts of the information must be protected and which could be protected. Often people think of information that could be protected as information that must be protected. Discretion is rarely used to disclose the information. When we receive a complaint, we are able to negotiate, but the first reaction is often to protect the information.
Access to information software allows you to carefully check information and redact what should not be disclosed. So people will often receive a document in which information has been blacked out. That is a possibility.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
The commercial entity or the third party therefore often has the discretionary power to require that the information not be disclosed. If the government absolutely needs a unique, one-of-a-kind product or service, you think it is appropriate to withhold that information.
7:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
It's hard to say. I have to be careful, because there could be a complaint or an investigation about this.
What I am saying is that provisions in the act allow information to be disclosed, just as provisions allow for information to be protected. You would have to refer to the contract in question. Just because there is a confidentiality clause does not mean that the entire contract must be protected.
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Thank you, Mr. MacKinnon. I was being very lenient with you today, so I appreciate that.
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
We'll now go to Ms. Vignola for two and a half minutes.
7:10 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Maynard, in the course of your work, have you ever been contacted by whistleblowers in the public service?
7:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
We sometimes receive questions from people who want to know how to deal with wrongdoing under the Access to Information Act. For example, it's a criminal act to destroy or hide existing information, to pretend that it does not exist, or to use codes to avoid disclosing it. People who work in access to information may bring those sorts of allegations to our attention, but we do not receive allegations that relate to any other area.
7:10 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Do these people submit this type of request to you more than once?
7:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
In the last two and a half years of my mandate, only one person has contacted my office anonymously to find out how to bring potential wrongdoing to our attention. Otherwise, we are the ones who come across that sort of information when we are looking at files.
7:10 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Earlier, you talked about an information management problem. That also made me think about the management of archives. In the past, I've dealt with companies with ISO 9000, 9001, 9002, 9014 and so on.
Does Canada have an ISO rating for handling its information? Does Canada archive its information properly?
If not, how can this be improved to ultimately improve your own work?
7:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
It would improve not only my work, but also of those working in access to information.
The general answer is no, we don't manage information properly. People keep everything. That's the new philosophy of electronic work. Having email exchanges 500 pages long is no surprise.
What we would like people to do is to sort information intelligently in order to keep what's important. Someone has to be responsible for managing email or email chains, especially if they lead to decisions or changes in policies or guidelines. That's mostly how it works now, instead of holding meetings. It is important that people know their responsibilities in that regard.
I have actually published a guideline with nine pointers on how to manage information properly, especially information in emails. It may help people at least to manage their email well, but it applies to all information. We used to have file folders with numbers and topics. Now people no longer have file folders, but they have electronic folders in their—
7:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I'm sorry.
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Thank you very much, Commissioner. I'm sorry for interrupting you.
We will go now to Mr. Green for two and a half minutes.
7:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you.
I mentioned earlier that I thought in comparison the U.S. has some better policies in place for access to information. I would like to get a more general input on our competitors. How does Canada compare to other G7 countries in terms of our access to information policies?
7:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
If you compare the legislation itself, there is a group that does an evaluation of the legislation in all the countries every year. Canada finished 52nd in 2018 and 50th last year so I guess the changes we have made with Bill C-58 brought us back by two ranks, but this is only looking at what the legislation allows. It's not evaluating how it's being applied in practice.