Government Operations Committee on Oct. 17th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Mrs. Atwin, I'm sorry for the delay. Please go ahead.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'm not sure whether that was a point of order, but I'll move on.

I want to clarify that Indigenous Services Canada does not verify any subcontracting; it's up to the contracting departments.

Perhaps this is for the director general. My first question is, what is Procurement Assistance Canada's mandate?

[Clinton Lawrence-Whyte, Director General, Procurement Assistance Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

Procurement Assistance Canada has the mandate to work with businesses to help them better understand how to navigate federal procurement. We have an increased focus on working with indigenous businesses to enhance and drive forward economic reconciliation. Essentially, we have a network of regional offices across the country that are able to work directly on the ground with businesses and partners to help us get the message out and to identify businesses that need assistance. Through various webinars and events, we try to provide them with the contacts and information they need to navigate and potentially have success in federal procurement.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Through that work, can you speak to any of the specific barriers to participation in federal procurement?

[Clinton Lawrence-Whyte]

Yes. The Government of Canada is working to ensure that federal procurement continues to remain fair, open and transparent. We listen to the business community about some of the challenges they face. We are mindful of the ways we can simplify procurement. That is something we're aware of, and in that context we have been taking steps to make procurement more simple.

One of the key things we've been focusing on to ensure the information that businesses need is available is the recent move to launch CanadaBuys, which is a platform that enables us to provide procurement opportunities. We know that the availability of information is critically important, and through CanadaBuys, we have a portal that is able to meet the needs of business.

Generally, businesses, particularly small businesses, will sometimes have challenges with financing and other things, but we know that if we put out information related to federal procurement and how it works, we can help provide them with opportunities to ultimately be successful.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

That's great. Thank you.

Ms. Paquette, in May 2022, Indigenous Services Canada introduced a requirement for businesses to certify that they qualify as indigenous businesses in order to register for the indigenous business directory. Was PSPC consulted on this, and can you explain these requirements?

[Joëlle Paquette]

I do not know if we were consulted. We may have been, but I do not have that answer. I'm sorry.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Do you know roughly how many businesses there are in the indigenous business directory compared to how many total indigenous businesses there are in Canada?

[Joëlle Paquette]

I do not know.

Do you know, Clinton?

[Clinton Lawrence-Whyte]

My understanding is there are about 2,900 businesses in the IBD. Based on recent research, there are upwards of 60,000 indigenous businesses across the country. That's the information we have to work with at this moment.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Do you think this massive discrepancy prohibits departments from reaching the 5% target?

[Joëlle Paquette]

That's why we're trying to engage indigenous communities. It's to try to get them to register for the IBD and register for CanadaBuys so they can increase their participation in our procurement activities.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

As the administrator of the indigenous business directory, what do you feel Indigenous Services Canada has to do to increase the registration of businesses and help all departments reach the 5% target?

[Joëlle Paquette]

They have started some engagement with various indigenous communities to determine how they can increase the number of suppliers on the IBD, how they can validate it differently or how it can be managed differently. However, they are the ones managing it and we're not necessarily involved in those discussions.

[Clinton Lawrence-Whyte]

I would also like to note that through Procurement Assistance Canada, we run quite a number of events across the country to raise awareness of the various lists available that indigenous businesses should be mindful of. We focus on encouraging indigenous businesses to register for CanadaBuys to enable them to ultimately do business with the Government of Canada.

We do different kinds of events, including what we call small business information expos. That's where we bring the broader federal family together in one location and invite different businesses. We focus on the indigenous business community on occasion, and that gives them an opportunity to find out which programs are available. We often invite our counterparts from Indigenous Services Canada so they're able to speak directly with indigenous businesses and explain what is needed. We also do buyers' expos, where we provide opportunities for businesses to talk to buyers so they can answer some of their questions.

We're doing pretty significant outreach, and when there are opportunities for an indigenous business to get to the point that they enter into a contract, we want to make sure they're made aware of the importance of being part of the IBD. That's to ensure the Government of Canada is moving toward the 5% target.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Just to be clear, does PSPC play any role in the initial verification of a business's ability to meet the eligibility requirements to be listed in the indigenous business directory and a business's ongoing eligibility?

[Joëlle Paquette]

No, we do not.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

With my remaining time, I encourage all committee members and members of Parliament to do a search through the Library of Parliament to find indigenous businesses in your ridings and how you can support them.

Thank you very much for being with us today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mrs. Atwin.

We'll go to Mrs. Vignola, please, for six minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Paquette, thank you for being here.

Efforts are currently under way to transfer control of the Indigenous Business Directory to indigenous organizations. Can you tell us where that transfer or the discussion about it stands?

[Joëlle Paquette]

As Indigenous Services Canada is responsible for those discussions, I'm not in a position to tell you where that stands at the moment.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

Here in committee, business representatives have often told us that the contracting process is cumbersome and complicated. Yesterday, a PLATO representative said that the certification process took two and a half years.

Why does the certification process take so long? Is it normal for it to be two and a half years? If so, that would be enough to discourage anyone from doing business with the federal government.

[Joëlle Paquette]

Thank you for the question.

We're not involved in the validation process, so I don't know how long it lasted or what kind of information was exchanged between the company and the Government of Canada.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'm talking about the certification process in general. What is the normal time frame for the certification process, generally speaking? Is two and a half years a normal time frame?

[Joëlle Paquette]

I don't have that information.

Do you know, Mr. Lawrence‑Whyte?