Evidence of meeting #16 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was post.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
The plan right now is that we hope the finalization stage will result in a contract by the end of this year, and if it is signed, delivery will begin in 2025.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Where are you getting 2025 from?
The reason I ask is that I have an associate who is senior in U.S. defence on the procurement side, and he's saying that because we've waited so long, the earliest we could expect them to roll up the line is 2030, so where is 2025 coming from, please?
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
I'm happy to turn that over to Simon, but before I do that, let me say this.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
We're short on time.
If you don't have the answer, could we get Mr. Page to answer quickly, please? I have a lot of questions.
1:40 p.m.
Simon Page Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for the question.
The date is a project date. It's according to the overall schedule of the project, so the 2025 ambition is according to where we are—
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm sorry. On whose schedule is it based? Is it yours? Whose is it?
1:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The schedules are usually the client's schedules. In this case, it's DND. We manage a schedule with them, because eventually the contract—
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Mr. Page, let me interrupt. This sounds like another one of our ongoing questions with the answer of “Well, you know, this is a group answer.”
Are you saying you have a definitive answer that it's 2025, or is this again a...?
1:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
From a PSPC point of view, we are responsible for conducting the finalization phase. This finalization phase is ongoing at the moment.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Where is 2025 coming from? Have you been told that specifically by the manufacturer or the U.S., or is this wishful thinking on behalf of the PSPC and DND?
1:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It's being discussed now as part of the finalization phase. We cannot get into these details at this time.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Why can you not get into these details at this time? It's a very simple question on delivery.
1:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It's a simple question, but it's part of our finalization phase. A finalization phase is the equivalent of negotiations, and negotiations are not to be discussed until—
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
It seems funny that the answer to every question we ask is always “Well, it's part of negotiations.”
The U.S. is saying 2030 because there are so many people in front of us and there are only so many F-35s being made. You're saying 2025, but maybe not, because of negotiations.
I think Canadians deserve an answer. Do you?
1:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The ambition through the finalization phase.... All finalization phases are ongoing now. The schedule is a key piece of it, and so are other key pieces, so we are—
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Where did 2025 come from, if it's part of a negotiation you can't discuss? Where did that number come from?
1:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
At the outset, with the client departments when the project is stood up, a project schedule will be derived. That project schedule is embraced at the DPS level with PSPC and ISED, and then we move out with a solicitation process and some of the elements of the project framework. As we go along, the schedule matures as we get more details and—
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Let me interrupt you.
You have a wonderful word salad there, Mr. Page, and I'm sorry for being pointed, but I'm looking for a straight answer. Where did the 2025 date come from? DND is not negotiating with the U.S. on this contract; PSPC is.
Where's 2025 coming from?
1:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It is a project date. The future fighter capability project date for delivery of the F-35s is 2025.
1:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Based on the analysis that was done during the definition of this project, which is still ongoing. This project remains in the—
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Thanks, Mr. Page.
I'm going to pop back to the minister.
In January, at the meeting you unfortunately missed, we discussed a press conference where PSPC said we might announce the fighter decision soon or we might delay making it for up to another 12 months, based on squeezing out more benefits.
Whose decision was it to perhaps delay the decision for another 12 months? I think this was a January 10 press conference.
That's to the minister, please.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
MP McCauley, I'm not clear on the question that you're asking. You're—
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
In January this year, PSPC held a press conference. When asked about the decision for the F-35, the answer was, “Well, it could be now, or we may delay.” In committee, we asked how long that delay could last, and we were told “Well, it could be another 12 months.” We asked specifically who made the decision, and we got the usual bureaucratic non-answer.
Who made the decision to perhaps delay the decision for another 12 months?